File server necessary for small office?

[Anonymous]

     I wasn't successful in finding an existing thread on a similar subject, and my research online still has me very confused. 

     I work in a small architecture firm of about 10 draftsmen. This is my father's company and I am finally getting enough experience to have some say in how the office operates.

     In the old days when I was still in grade school, our office shared files internally using a network drive on one of the PC's in the office. However, when we moved from renting to owning an office location, we spent the money to have a local file server and internal network installed. It has been almost ten years now and we just keep having more and more issues with all of our autocad performance. For a while I was convinced it was our age-old machines we were working on, and I built new systems for the entire office. We are all now on pascal quadro cards and 8th gen Intel CPU's, and autocad still runs terribly. 

     Apparently there are a lot of communication issues between our systems and the server, (or so our server maintenance guy says(obviously he isn't very helpful)) but I don't know anything about servers... My main issue is that I just do not see the point of having a server at all in our small office. The only thing I can find pointing towards a server being necessary is the speed of file access.

     The forums I have read on the subject want me to believe that 10 people accessing the same hard-drive on a network location will have a slower time versus if they were accessing that same hard-drive through a server.  Is this really (substantially) true, or could I just invest in a few 1tb SSDs and get even faster access through a network drive? I do not see any point to having a server in-office. We run local licenses, we use email that does not depend on the server, as far as I can tell, all our server is doing is acting as a (glorified?) network drive. I would love to be able to get rid of the big expensive server entirely, and then begin to figure out the rest of our AutoCAD performance issues (if any remain after removing the server, as I believe they all stem from the server)

Thanks in advance, any insight is greatly appreciated.

[pendean]

What variants and year-versions of AutoCAD are you running exactly?
And what version of Windows are the PCs running, what WinServer OS version is on your current server, and are all 10 users connected to it how and at what speed exactly?

[Anonymous]

@pendean wrote:
What variants and year-versions of AutoCAD are you running exactly?
And what version of Windows are the PCs running, what WinServer OS version is on your current server, and are all 10 users connected to it how and at what speed exactly?

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I believe we are all on a gigabit ethernet switch? With a separate CAT5 line running from each individual station to the gigabit ethernet switch? I think that's how it is set up. When downloading files from the server, I get 100 mBps download speed. We are mostly all on AutoCAD 2017, with one or two of us still on 2016, regular AutoCAD, not LT or architect or anything. We are all on Windows 10 pro and I try to keep everyone fully updated, and the server is running Windows Server 2012. What do we even need a server for pendean? Thanks in advance.

[TravisNave]

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@Anonymous wrote:
What do we even need a server for...?

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Document management, data integrity, version history, and disaster recovery.  Use Vault on the server, check out and work locally on the client.  Solves any latency issues and gives you all the benefits of modern data management.   

[Anonymous]

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@TravisNave wrote:

Use Vault on the server, check out and work locally on the client. 

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     So this would be sort of like downloading the files off of the server and working with them 'offline', not being tied to the server while we are working, and the server would then be in charge of locking the file so someone else couldn't edit it, and managing all the old versions and whatnot for backup purposes?

     I can see your point of the server being necessary for file management and system security... It looks like I am going to be teaching myself about servers now too... I will look more into the vault. It is the autodesk vault server that you were referring to, correct? Thank you for the input.

[pendean]

There are 1000s of AutoCAD offices of your size with your setup, and no issues, what is in your mind a replacement for that setup? You have to have had an idea before you came here, what is it?

Your setup uses the Server for a central file repository (one file one location vs 10-copies/variants of a file on 10-PCs), live backups, offsite backup, instant backup recovery, file versioning if you need it, it is also often a gateway for internet access for your office (and firewall to prevent access back into the server), centralized anti-virus/anti-malware for all PCs and Server, log-in controls (fire someone ticked off at you without a server to find out what malicious intent looks like), and so much more as noted by others etc.

[Anonymous]

 @pendean wrote:

...what is in your mind a replacement for that setup? You have to have had an idea before you came here, what is it?...

     I am sorry I did not make that clear.

     When I asked if I could just invest in a few 1TB SSDs and use them as a network drive, I meant use them as a network drive on our local network to use as our file server instead of using the server for that purpose.

     I did not realize all that the server could do, and I am not completely sure what all our server is actually doing right now.

     We live in a small town far away from any big cities and there are no IT companies to come out and deal with our computer stuff. There probably are remote IT companies that can help us from afar, but this isn't my company and I don't get to decide where the money goes. I would like to understand and be able to work on everything that our office utilizes to function myself. I'm not bucking all the pros a server brings to the table, I'm just trying to find the quickest and easiest solution that would solve our issues without taking time out of my drafting to learn how to run and manage a server and office network myself...

     The guy that did our server is a bit of a shady character and when he explains things to me, all I hear is his salesman tone of voice and I really just don't trust the guy to do what he does.  I want to be able to manage this office by myself essentially. Is it reasonable of me to take on the task of learning about servers, knowledgeable Autodesk gurus? I am not being sarcastic, I apologize if it is taken as such. I'm in my early twenties and just getting into the field, trying to learn all I can. I already know more than my fellow classmates and coworkers about computers, would it also be of great value for me to learn how to run and manage servers?? It seems like it would be.

     As to my original topic, it seems like I need to learn more about how our office is actually functioning already before I can start to make any changes...

     Thank you for your time and input. It is greatly appreciated.

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@pendean wrote:
...(fire someone ticked off at you without a server to find out what malicious intent looks like)...

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     Also, I say this in fear of demonstrating the extent of my knowledge, is the server acting as the firewall for the whole office that much more secure than regular window's firewall? It's really protecting that much?

     At this point I'm probably just wasting everyone's time. I'll try to be a bit more knowledgeable about my next post before asking questions... My apologies everyone. Thanks again for the input.

[pendean]

It miht truly help you all if you contacted a non-shady professional to come over and give you all the big picture overview of what you actually need vs. what problems you have in place now.

Which "larger" city are you nearest and how far away from it are you in miles or minutes driving? Someone around here may be able to recommend a few firms or persons to contact to help you all with your networking/file management needs.

[Anonymous]

     That does sound like a good idea. We're in the high desert of southern California about 40 minutes from Rancho Cucamonga or San Bernardino. Probably not the most inaccessible location when I think about it... You're right pendean. Business is business, and we should get someone in here who specializes in autocad data management.

     If anyone has any recommendations, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Frederick_Law]

First define your performance problem.

Second tell us how you are using the server now.

In general, I don't recommend opening files from the network.  Always use a local copy.

Think about it.  Your network is 1000 mbit/s, max speed which give you around 100 mByte/s.  In real life, I can get 30mB/s on my network.  If all 10 people reading and saving files at the same time, they each get 3 mB/s each average (not really but more technical on how a switch work).  That's has nothing to do with how fast your hard drives and computers are.

Beside the speed, response time is another thing.  With 10 computers communicating at the same time, the network may drop packets (it will ignore request and let the computer timeout and request again).  That's is most of your problem.  Files take forever to open/save.  AutoCAD lock up because it can't get the file.

Vault is the best solution if you need to share file between cad operators.  Unless you keep each operator working on their own project and use the server for backup only.

[jggerth]

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@Frederick_Law wrote:
... In general, I don't recommend opening files from the network.  Always use a local copy...

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Oh hell no, unless you are running an EDMS designed to manage that workflow.  Multiple copies of a current drawings is a sure fire recipe for coordination problems that could have been easily avoided by non-duplication of files.