Wall opening projects its void further than the boundary of the wall

[simon.jerabek]

To explain the confusing title, I have created a door opening family, that simultaneously cuts the floor construction according to the needs of the projects. The problem is that the void that creates the opening in the door continues for another 1,5m in each direction and cuts through the floor construction. It doesn't cut the wall opposite of the door, because that is a different element out of which the family is not cut. So if I have (in this case a bathroom pod) that is less than 1,5m wide from door to wall, it creates a cut in the floor. 

The wall opening within the family cannot be in any way constrained to the wall (essentially it is constrained because it is face based on the wall face...) My thinking is that a wall opening in Revit is within the family as default set up to 1,5m on each side, to ensure it could be used on virtually any wall thickness (overkill). If that is correct, is there a way to decrease this?
Here is a screencast to show the effect: 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/a9e3db05-5d02-4774-920c-6ccadc17230a

[simon.jerabek]

It is not letting me insert the screencast on the original posting for some reason, so trying here:

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

So, if I'm reading you right, your Door Family is a Face-Based Family and uses a Void Extrusion (in lieu of an Opening Cut) to cut the opening in the Host.  If so, you can easily make the Void Depth Parametric so that you can control its Depth in the Project based on the Host thickness. Extrusion Depth Instance Parameter Value = Host Wall Thickness.  

...BTW: Are you able to delete the Host in the Family? Sounds like a conversion from a Wall-Hosted Family. If so, the Host "wall" is unnecessary geometry and can probably be deleted. I would just delete it in this case.  

[ToanDN]

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@simon.jerabek wrote:

To explain the confusing title, I have created a door opening family, that simultaneously cuts the floor construction according to the needs of the projects. The problem is that the void that creates the opening in the door continues for another 1,5m in each direction and cuts through the floor construction. It doesn't cut the wall opposite of the door, because that is a different element out of which the family is not cut. So if I have (in this case a bathroom pod) that is less than 1,5m wide from door to wall, it creates a cut in the floor. 

The wall opening within the family cannot be in any way constrained to the wall (essentially it is constrained because it is face based on the wall face...) My thinking is that a wall opening in Revit is within the family as default set up to 1,5m on each side, to ensure it could be used on virtually any wall thickness (overkill). If that is correct, is there a way to decrease this?

I have never heard or experienced this.  

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Can you share your model?

[simon.jerabek]

It is a wall based family, so the opening is actually not done by a void but by wall opening. I can't delete the host in the family, because it is a wall based family, hence the wall is the host.

I am attaching the family.

[simon.jerabek]

I am sending it to you in private message. Thanks 🙂

[RDAOU]

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@simon.jerabek wrote:

...It doesn't cut the wall opposite of the door, because that is a different element out of which the family is not cut. So if I have (in this case a bathroom pod) that is less than 1,5m wide from door to wall, it creates a cut in the floor. [RD] If Cut Geometry is used, a wall opening can/may also cut the opposite wall which is neither the host element nor joined to the original wall hosting the door/opening

The wall opening within the family cannot be in any way constrained to the wall (essentially it is constrained because it is face based on the wall face...) My thinking is that a wall opening in Revit is within the family as default set up to 1,5m on each side [RD] not really. there is no default settings for the wall opening Depth.

• The wall opening will cut the host wall (and any other Wall joined to it) regardless of the wall thickness

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@simon.jerabek 

The family you attached consists of 

1. a Wall Opening element 
2. 3 Void extrusions (not constrained to anything and not cutting anything)

None of what is in that family correlates to what you have shown in the video clip you posted ... Apart from that

• I wouldn't use an OC and Void in the same family (use either or - usually the latter)
• If you do not want the Opening to be constrained to host
  1. Use a Void Extrusion
  2. Lock it to a a plane on each side of the wall
  3. Associate each  reference plane with an Offset parameter from the wall Interior/Exterior Face

[simon.jerabek]

How does it not correlate? 
My problem is not the voids nor opposite wall being cut. It is the floor construction that is being cut by the wall opening. The opposite wall is also an independent element..

The voids are not cutting anything in the family, but have purpose of cutting the floor construction in the project - just not 1,5 out of the host.

[RDAOU]

@simon.jerabek 

Using a badly modeled family out of the original context may or may not recreate the demonstrated issue/error...Please read again what I wrote with regard to the issues found in the family you posted:

1. Voids Not Cutting Anything - Ie: they will not cut anything in the project unless user deliberately uses Cut Geometry. 
2. Unconstrained Elements - The voids are Neither locked to any Reference planes Nor Constrained by a Dimension String or Parameter. 
3. Default Settings of Wall Opening depth - This Does Not exist...the voids may go haywire in depth/width/length due to the fact that they are not constrained (unpredictable) - Refer to remark 2 above
4. Use of Void + Opening Cut - Not recommended. It may at instances generate errors such as "Unable to Cut Instance out of its Host"

Using the Family you posted in a blank project behaves as expected with respect to how it has been modeled...Should you want to know what exactly is happening in your model, post the model itself (ie: Family + Project Context)

PS: The remark in red (previous reply) was not intended to imply that you are having problems cutting opposite wall but to clarify that the opposite elements may be cut by voids/opening cut of an insert hosted in a different non-related element.

[simon.jerabek]

Using a badly modeled family out of the original context may or may not recreate the demonstrated issue/error...Please read again what I wrote with regard to the issues found in the family you posted:
- Stating something is badly modeled without knowing the purpose of it is a bit premature. The family does what it needs to and has been used on many projects already, the rare instance of having an opposite wall so close happened for the first time now, so I was just curious why that happens.

1. Voids Not Cutting Anything - Ie: they will not cut anything in the project unless user deliberately uses Cut Geometry. 
   - This family is used in a template, always cutting what is necessary - as I said before, the voids work as intended.
2. Unconstrained Elements - The voids are Neither locked to any Reference planes Nor Constrained by a Dimension String or Parameter. 
   - The voids are constrained where needed to be constrained and controlled by instance parameters where flexibility is necessary.
3. Default Settings of Wall Opening depth - This Does Not exist...the voids may go haywire in depth/width/length due to the fact that they are not constrained (unpredictable) - Refer to remark 2 above
   - Not true, it is not the voids cutting the floor, it is the wall opening. It is clear because the voids do not go above the level of the wall opening. 
4. Use of Void + Opening Cut - Not recommended. It may at instances generate errors such as "Unable to Cut Instance out of its Host"
   - I hear you, but so far it has been working well, until I came across this rather small area to work with (it is very unusual the opposite wall would be so close).

Using the Family you posted in a blank project behaves as expected with respect to how it has been modeled...Should you want to know what exactly is happening in your model, post the model itself (ie: Family + Project Context)
- This family is never intended to be used in a blank project, it is tailored to our models. 

Anyway, I think we can close this thread. I know I can solve it with constraining a void instead of using the wall opening, I just found it interesting that this happens. Thanks for your input.

[RDAOU]

@simon.jerabek 

Premature? I actually believe that I have overrated it by calling it badly modeled.

Download the family you uploaded and check it out again!! You must be either using a different family or you have never modeled a family in Revit before. (Watch the GIF below...that is what you uploaded)

1. The void extruded along the depth (ie: the one you are complaining about) is neither constrained nor controlled by any parameters.
2. Where instance parameters are used, you are using in conjuntion with other geometries/extrusions instead of reference planes
3. The wall Opening is not cutting The Floor element...It is locked to the Ref. Level. As a matter of fact, the wall opening is actually the only thing that is locked properly in this family and most probably it is so because you had nothing to do with it.

With all due respect, the family you attached and the the justifications provided in your reply sound more like its your first time using Revit..

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@simon.jerabek wrote:

...

- The voids are constrained where needed to be constrained and controlled by instance parameters where flexibility is necessary.

Anyway, I think we can close this thread. I know I can solve it with constraining a void instead of using the wall opening, I just found it interesting that this happens. Thanks for your input.

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You state confidently "Constrained where needed" then you depict yourself and state that the solution is to constrain the voids...Does that tell you anything at all??

[simon.jerabek]

I admit it is not the prettiest family, but due to the complexity of the build up our production facility works with, it is necessary. And believe it or not, it works perfectly fine, where we are able to control the height/depth of the recess, cutout of door tiles for door frame, or whether it has a recess at all - all those things vary from project to project

Here you can see the construction of the floor, which has an elevated egde under the walls that goes above the top level of the floor tiles:

I hope it clarifies at least a little bit my reasoning behind my amateur family...