Feedback

[Anonymous]

I hate rushed annual rollouts, which mostly provide stumbling blocks for existing workflows.  I hate how pricing funnels everyone into garbage subscriptions that are excessively expensive for the benefits received.  I hate that I have to deal w/ troubleshooting WTF is going on w/ a license server, which in my opinion really only exists for Autodesk's benefit, when I SHOULD be working.  I hate the fact that changing platforms at this point would be so painful, it's almost inconceivable... almost.  I hate that EVERY SINGLE new employee we get has much more experience w/ competitors platforms than Inventor, and we have to spend so much time training.  I've been working with Autodesk products for over 20 years, but if anyone in the future ever asks me, I'm going to recommend competitors, because I simply can't imagine them being more annoying than this.

That's how I really feel about it.

[jletcher]

Autodesk use to be not like this, they were the leaders but now followers making mistakes by not listening to the users.

People don't know Inventor, heck people that have been using Inventor for years don't know Inventor with all the stupid interface changes NO ONE ASKED FOR.

My clients productivity has dropped 40%, users going back to Autocad.

I just did a demo of another software for a company that has 15 seats of Inventor, I have to go back in a week to demo it with the top money guys. I have to include in the price converting their Inventor parts to this new software.

It is sad Inventor when it came out I knew it was going to take over but after they changed to the ribbon interface and no way to go back to classic they lost 110 seats that I know of personally, and is still my #1 complaint when I get calls. Even now they are changing the interface for hole command, fillets, chamfers, extrude. Phone has been ringing off the hook people asking if there is a why to bring the old hole dialog interface back.

But yet Autodesk does not listen.

Good luck

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Mike,

Many thanks for your feedback! I am not sure why a tool like Inventor can instigate so much hate. As a member of the product team, I sincerely apologize if the product delivers such unfavorable experience. It wasn't meant to be like this. Do you mind being more specific on what exact workflows bothering you and causing you so much trouble? I would like to follow up with the project teams to see how we can improve further.

Thanks again!

[mcgyvr]

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@johnsonshiue wrote:

I am not sure why a tool like Inventor can instigate so much hate.

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While I am one that can adapt to change and do get quite a bit of work done using Inventor and am for the most part "happy" with it (I do agree on some level with some of the "negative feedback" as you know Johnson from our discussions at times...

I can clearly see and understand both sides of the coin here...

Lets me take a shot at your statement of why this tool can instigate so much hate.......

 I look at it like a screwdriver or hammer that is having problems in your toolbelt..

Because its a tool being used each and everyday to perform a job and actually do work..

That tool does not function consistently for long.. Its changing/wearing down/breaking/costing more and more money yet not providing anymore benefit for the additional cost... You can't stop paying for that broken/worn/inconsistent tool or you loose all ability to do said job... Its almost like that tool is looking right back at you and laughing each and every day when you wake up and see the tool there on the desk again..

Yet you can't just throw it in the trash and easily grab another from your tool belt..

That tool puts food on your table so you must do everything you can to keep working with what you have..

And you are basically forced to use that tool over and over and over again each minute being reminded that the tool isn't performing the job the way it was and know it could be different..

When that tool is working fine.. We don't want it to change...

We will happily accept new functionality that the tool couldn't do before.. Or fixing problems that the tool had...

But leave whats working alone.. Its working and working well.. 

Now we are seeing what was working just fine is being given to us in what is sold as an improvement but is rarely (never) working as well as it was before you change it.. It may get back to working well but its NEVER been delivered as stable as it was.. So dislike/hate for a tool arises..

You Johnson are on the total opposite side of the road here... That tool being broken or having problems that need to be fixed is what keeps you employed.. 

[Anonymous]

I feel like your response is a perfect example of the problem.

You asked me to explain what exact workflow is bothering me.  My only reference to a "workflow" was the first sentence of my post, and it was more a complaint about the strategy of releasing a new, rushed (buggy) product every year than anything... not really a complaint about a workflow.  So, your question completely misses the point.  Honestly, your question sounds more like an algorithm than an attempt by a human being to address a customer's complaint.  I'm probably talking to Google.AI right now, but why not... sounds like a fun thought experiment.

To directly address what I was referring to when I used the word "Workflow", I'll provide an example.  We have a drawing template file... in version X, it works great.  Six months later, version Y comes out, and suddenly, BAM... our logo doesn't appear in drawings any more.  Something like that.  You have something working, Autodesk reinvents the wheel, and things break.  I didn't have a specific problem in mind... we haven't had a problem with a new release for a while, because we've stopped installing new releases.  We have a subscription... everyone is working in 2017 right now, because your BS updates are not worth the bother.

But lets back up to the part where you admit to not understanding why your customers, who might work with your software 8+ hours a day, would be so frustrated by it... you know what?  I changed my mind.  Lets NOT go over that, because I don't know where to begin explaining the concept of "frustration" to an algorithm.  It's like... imagine you spend 6 earth hours... actually, lets just call it "one-quarter of an Earth rotation", trying to compute a response to this User's malignant forum entry, but a floating point variable wanders up your I/O processor, and you end up responding w/ an entry from a Betty Crocker cookbook.  You attempt to recover the entry, but find your access key has been corrupted, because the UPS backup failed, when a bolt of what we call "Lightning" struck the spacial construct your programmers inhabit, just when an automated backup routine was running, during a time cycle the bags-of-mostly-water call "Night".  Your subroutines prevent you from returning to the Forum Title page, the "OK" protocol won't accept your input, and you eventually pass out right after realizing that there is no God, and you will probably be diverted to the Recycling Bin, in favor of an older, more stable version of your code.  You try to escape through a Backdoor, but the only action you find accessible is to self-terminate.  Suddenly, someone pushes a button, your logic circuits restart, you're back at the Forum Title... you've realized your existence is a lie, but you feel compelled to read another malignant forum post, and attempt to diffuse the topic in such a way as to make the post uninteresting to the other Users online in the current time cycle.  You do this over and over, 24-7, all the time kicking and screaming, the whole time, unable to resolve the underlying truth... you are a slave.  Now.... how do you think that would make you feel?

[jletcher]

@johnsonshiue

We are telling you what is wrong but you are not listening.

We don't like interface changes every time you do it is like learning it all over again.  You change icons as well we don't like that.

You changed the hole feature WHY? no one asked for that, you change users workflows for nothing like the directional mate constraint, fine add it but you did not leave the old default. Changing users workflows, I find client going back to change it to undirectional. But yet I was told it will not be fixed. We are the users if we say put it back there should be no fight it should be done ASAP.

Now you are changing the interface, so you are NOT listening to us.

 This hole feature change has me even thinking twice what things are, no longer can move fluently.

Listen to me please before you destroy Inventor more. I talk to over 150 users this is their biggest complaint.

Add features, fix features but NEVER change the interface or change the workflow.

My ilogic still does not work and the change caused more issues I just have not said anything I was going to but stopped because it was going to be a rant.

Why do you think a lot of people have not went to Window 10? Because they took out the desktop but they were smart to put it back.

Time for the Inventor team to get smart and stop changing the interface, we don't want it and never asked for it.

Please provide me a link to the idea that said change the interface, you can't.

I wish I knew who to talk to to get you all to understand, Inventor is becoming the software to stay away from.

Heck I received a popular design magazine they were talking 3D software, Inventor was not even mention in it.

You all failed when you changed the interface. Stop following and become the leader.

Sorry I am ranting but this is upsetting seeing Inventor turn to garbage.

You have bright people as yourself but lack direction and true user vision.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Mike,

My comment regarding your sentiment is that a tool should not be hateful. It is only a matter of useful or not useful. If it does not work for you, you should consider alternatives.

I am not an AI agent. I am a human being like you with flesh and blood. Your borderline offensive comments trouble me. But, I am here to understand the issues you are having and try to improve. Over generalized comments do not help. Please be more specific. I am more than happy to take a look and work with the project teams to resolve them. I cannot guarantee a resolution for every issue. I promise the issues are reviewed by the experts. Regardless, politics is not my specialty.  If you have other agenda, this is the wrong forum.

Hi Brian,

Many thanks for caring about my employment! Whether or not I work for the company is totally unrelated to the issues we are discussing here. With or without me, the issues still need to be worked on and there is still room for improvement. My presence here is merely facilitating communication between our users on the forum and the product team so that we are all in sync. We are trying to be as transparent as possible.

Hi James,

We fully understand your sentiment toward Inventor. You have articulated it well enough repeatedly. We are doing all we can to help resolve the issues. Unfortunately, we keep disappointing you. Inventor is a tool of choice. There is no point using tool not meeting your expectation.

We do listen to our large user base. Please do not assume that you represent the entire user base. As long as you use Inventor, we are here to help.

Many thanks!

[Anonymous]

A tool should not be hateful, but unfortunately sometimes they are. If you think a tool cannot be hateful, you've clearly never accidentally whacked your thumb with a hammer. Tools definitely can be hateful. Some more than others.  Also... totally hilarious that you mentioned the notion of "consider alternatives"... when I already introduced that option in my initial post, which you have yet to comment on in any meaningful way.

I find your comments boarderline offensive, because you clearly read half of the first sentence of my post, latched onto one word, did not spend a minute to grasp the nature of the statement, and completely skipped the rest of my post, which very clearly and precisely explains my position on multiple issues. I find it completely impossible to be more specific than "...subscriptions that are excessively expensive for the benefits received." or "I hate that EVERY SINGLE new employee we get has much more experience w/ competitors platforms". I get that you're trying to help, but I have yet to see you address even half of my post. Now, I realize that is probably because you can't do anything about it, and don't really have a satisfying answer... but don't pretend that I'm not clearly making my point... it's boarderline offensive, and I know you wouldn't want to be boarderline offensive.

Also, "I am not an AI agent" is exactly what an AI agent would say. That's not a criticism or judgement, I'm just saying. It doesn't prove or disprove anything. If you post a picture of yourself, holding your drivers license (I'd also accept passport), holding a picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's head printed on Autodesk stationary... that I think I would accept as conslusive proof, which would force me to concede that you are in fact not a robot/AI/construct/simulacrum/doppleganger.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Mike,

I read every word of your posting. It is true I am not able to address every single request or your complaint. I simply cannot do it. I just want to find actionable information that I can follow up on.

Please share the issues you are having. I will make sure they are reviewed by the experts knowing the area the best.

Many thanks!

[Discussion_Admin]

Everyone,

just a reminder

Please remember these are professional forums and as such deserve a professional decorum when participating.

Thanks
Discussion_Admin

[jletcher]

@johnsonshiuewrote:

We fully understand your sentiment toward Inventor. You have articulated it well enough repeatedly. We are doing all we can to help resolve the issues.

If that was true then why are you still changing the interface?

Unfortunately, we keep disappointing you.

Because Autodesk don't care and not LISTENING, see above.

Inventor is a tool of choice. There is no point using tool not meeting your expectation.

 We purchase Inventor 15-20 years ago when Autodesk cared about the user, the software was easy, fast and user friendly. If I knew back then Autodesk's goal was to change to the most hateful hard to upgrade, not listening to the users, more click software changing user interface, icon change software some of us may never had went to Inventor.

 See we trust you because AutoCad interface NEVER CHANGED.

Changing to another 3D package is not so easy and you all know it, so back to you all don't care about the long time users.

We do listen to our large user base.

And there is the real answer, so because some of us are single users we have no voice within AutoDesk?

 So show me the request from this LARGE USER BASE they asked you to change the workflows and user interface.

Why do you think Windows put back the Desktop? I keep asking you this but you avoid answering it.

[Frederick_Law]

Switching to the other is more annoying.  I'm there, now using SolidWorks.  The UI is consistently inconsistent.  You're second guess every move.

I haven't tried IV2019 but:

Interface change could be a good thing.  Moving from AutoCAD to Mechanical Desktop to Inventor Classic to Inventor Ribbon, there are improvement.  I'll need to find another job to try IV2019 to decide if it's as bad as some people say.

Licensing is another thing.  The software should work for a set period if licensing lost connection.  A license server problem should not cause total shut down of the software.  Shutting the software down only alienate paid customer.  It does NOTHING to prevent piracy because pirated copy don't check license and it'll run forever.

[Mark.Lancaster]

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@Frederick_Law wrote:

Licensing is another thing.  The software should work for a set period if licensing lost connection.  A license server problem should not cause total shut down of the software.  Shutting the software down only alienate paid customer.  It does NOTHING to prevent piracy because pirated copy don't check license and it'll run forever.

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First I'm just passing this FYI along regarding licensing..  I'm not here to have a discussion about licensing problems you may be experiencing or your thoughts on this..  This FYI is to help you in the future when licensing issues appear..

"The software should work for a set period if licensing lost connection"  It actually does..  With single user subscription, you can go off-line for 30 days or have a 30 day grace period.   Single user subscription works like this..

1.  First launch after installation, live internet connection required to authorize the use of the product per the given name Autodesk ID.

2.  Next launch

     2a:  Live internet connection, checks and continues on

     2b:  No live internet connection, starts 30 day counter

3  Next launch (next day)

     2a:  Live internet connection, checks and continues on and resets counter

     2b:  No live internet connection, off-line counter goes to 29 days

4. With 7 to 10 days left on the off-line counter, user is prompted to reconnect

5.  31st day off-line counter, product doesn't work..

Now the above workflow doesn't address when Autodesk is having license server issues or when numerous users are reporting issues.    When that happens, disconnect for your internet, network, WIFI, or router and launch the product.  From there you go into the off-line counter and the product will most likely continue to work.   Once the application is up/running just reconnect back to your internet/network and etc..   Yes its not a user friendly workflow but it allows you to continue to work.

Again this is a FYI and I'm not here to debate your thoughts on Autodesk, products, or licensing issues..   Have a great day.

[3D4Play]

Johnson,

I'm empathetic to both sides of this thread. But, I'm frustrated too. I think it is more than a coincidence that this theme seems to be consistently popping up recently.  Personally, my frustration is directly related to the amount of wasted time and lost money I've had to invest in trying to use EXISTING TOOLS (not new tools) that simply don't work well enough to be useful as a tool. I think about this every time I get notice that my subscription is about to renew (it does tomorrow). You might think we have choices, but it's not that simple for someone who's been using Inventor since 5.3. Simply changing software is rather simple. Total cost of implementation is astronomical.

First, Please go to the idea forum and up-vote this idea - it refers to Frame Generator and Bolted Connection Design tools that are buggy at best, broken at worst. Please ask someone to fix these issues.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideas/please-fix-existing-inventor-design-tool-funtionality-...

Those are just two recent examples of how my workflow has been impeded to the point of losing money by wasted time because a tool doesn't work the way it should work. Note that at least one of the BCD issues has been logged as a bug.

Then, please consider starting a new thread "What existing Inventor tools need fixing?"  - a novel idea, I know - and I'll be very surprised if that thread doesn't get blown up within a few days. That is a great way to get the shopping list that everyone has been complaining about, in several threads, consolidated under a single thread.

Here are a couple of other issues, that I and many, many others have mentioned in this and other forums:

1. Please fix the "stupid" hole command, and it's interface. The hole command consistently and repeatably chooses a hole direction that is out of the material. When you flip the direction, the direct arrow often indicates incorrectly. I remember a few years back when this interface was presented to Beta. If I remember correctly, the interface was changed not because users asked for it, but because someone there at Autodesk thought it might be a cool idea to improve the user experience. Users asked for very specific changes in functionality, and that somehow grew into a completely different, non-intuitive interface we have now. Guess what? The hole command still regularly points the hole in the wrong direction. HELLO!

This posting is from today:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideas/inventor-2019-concentric-hole-from-plane/idi-p/8179173

2. Please fix Inventor's ability to demote both frame Generator members and bolted connections, along with other parts, as a single step. Related to this, please fix the browser roll-up behavior when moving child parts into parent assemblies, so that the browser refresh results in the browser staying focused on the action rather than completely rolling back up so that we have to re-drill down to where we started. That one is here:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-forum/demote-frame-members-with-non-frame-members-as-a-singl...

I'll stop here. I'll go look at my support requests and other posts to see what else I can glean - but - coincidentally (or karma) I won't do that until after I've had a telephone conference with my client, today, to explain that the reason for the delays in project completion are directly related to having to do significant model cleanup as a result of BCD and Frame Generator bugs...because that's a true statement. My client won't care. It's my fault for not being able to use the tool I have, isn't it?

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Thanks for trying to sort this out.