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Utilizing Revit for Load Calculations

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Message 1 of 6
Anonymous
902 Views, 5 Replies

Utilizing Revit for Load Calculations

Hey all - 

 

I work for a relatively small MEP firm, where I am the "Revit" guy for our mechanical side of the office. While my job title is "mechanical designer", often-times I more-or-less have the duties of "BIM Manager" as well. (50-person firm with no dedicated BIM/CAD manager...it's fun!) Due to this, I am often trying to find ways to streamline processes and make workflows more efficient. 

 

I would really like to know if anyone has used Revit's load calculations capabilities. In my 4 years of experience, all I've heard around the office is to not rely on Revit to calculate ANYTHING. I can understand not putting all one's eggs into one basket, but there's gotta be SOME way to leverage Revit's calculating abilities... right?! So if anyone out there has used any part of this side of Revit for purposes of design, I would love to pick your brain/hear your workflow. At the very least I'd be interested to know if the source Revit derives it's information is accurate/reliable (I.E. info found in Space Type Settings, etc.)

 

I'm not saying replace Carrier HAP or anything (although - that'd be a dream!)... really just looking for insight/testimonials. Thanks for taking the time to read!

5 REPLIES 5
Message 2 of 6
scott_dakin
in reply to: Anonymous

What country are you in?

I use Spaces for a lot of my calculations but that is based off Shared Parameters more than anything.

 

The information in the Space Type dialogues is useful and I do use that in my schedules to drive calculations as well as the spaces Actual Load information and the values given in the Panel Schedules.

 

With that being said the detailed design calculations are generally carried out in separate software or using a plug-in. The plug-ins are better as there is no need to move information between different software packages, lots of time and lots of room for human error. Anything automated is generally better.

 

For an example - why build a model of the building for lighting design calculations when the Revit model is there waiting for you. Every time the Architect issues a new model you make a few adjustments and hit Calculate rather than having to spend hours or days redrafting the calculation model.

 

With the correct plug-in's Revit changes from great to awesome, just got to convince the powers-that-be to invest in the up-front costs of licensing and training.

Message 3 of 6
Anonymous
in reply to: scott_dakin

Thanks for the reply/input, Scott.

 

I am in the U.S., Baltimore, MD specifically.

 

Pretty much no one else in my office uses Revit for any sort of calculations; they tried in the past and powers-that-be got burned (probably user error..?). So the answer is never to rely on Revit for any sort of calculation (mechanically).

 

[There is even talk recently of straight-up NOT using Spaces in projects at all - to only use Rooms. I feel like this is a bad idea. Input?]

 

We perform calcs outside of Revit, using Carrier HAP for the most part. Then we use various different Excel spreadsheets to document air balance, air summaries, etc. I'm not trying to use Revit SOLELY for calculating loads, but there has GOT to be a way to streamline some of this work, and I think understanding how to utilize spaces is the key. 

 

Can you provide any add-ins you're using? I am not aware of any that could be applicable. ANY info/insight is helpful. Thanks!

Message 4 of 6
scott_dakin
in reply to: Anonymous

I am afraid I am going to be of limited help here as I am an electrical engineer in the UK but I will do my best. My company lets me try anything I fancy but actually buying the plug-ins.... not so much.

 

I have used Trimble (formerly Amtech) ProDesign 3D. This moves the cable sizing calculations from a separate software package to reside within Revit. When I create a circuit in Revit it will then allow me to calculate and document it without having to move all the details for the circuit into a separate package, I liked this very much. Now we have the Edit Path tool to sort out the length of the circuit so it is measured correctly this is a must-have for electrical engineers, unfortunately it is prohibitively expensive, they are really missing a trick here as nobody is going to buy it at the price they are asking, no matter how good it is. They are focussed on the up-front sale income rather than the on-going maintenance income, a rookie mistake imo.

 

I have also used the Elumtools trial, this was before they added external lighting and emergency lighting calculations. Another no-brainer and its not even that expensive.

 

We would really like MagiCAD for mechanical design calculations, we've had the sales demo's and have talked to some actual users, seems to be just what we need as Revit's native design calculations for pipes and ducts are no use for the UK market and can be a bit flakey. Very low flow values for pipes default to a higher than normal minimum value so it doesn't calculate properly using the in-built revit calculation engine. I'm sure this will get fixed eventually if it has not already.

 

I think MAgiCAD would be a replacement for most or all of Carrier HAP, not sure if it works with USA standards or not, I think it may do. The chap who is leading the mechanical development of it is a pretty smart cookie so the software is similarly pretty awesome. Not perfect but nothing is.

 

We use xRevTransmit to print drawings, this paid for itself in about 4 minutes. Super awesome tool, definitely go buy this as it's cheap.

 

Please go and find the people who say not to use spaces and boil them in oil, perhaps twice, just to make sure they know how silly they are being.

Architect's use Rooms, MEP folk use Spaces, they are custom designed to make out lives easy and store huge amounts of useful information. They drive a lot of automation that saves time and reduces inaccuracies in documentation and scheduling. The automatic space creation and naming tools that are native in Revit make using them really easy.

 

TBH you need to get hold of somebody who has more experience to lead the way, Spaces are way down the list of the complexities of Revit and the lack of expertise will be why your efforts are failing.

 

You want to try and swap the excel spreadsheets for revit schedules wherever you can. This will require changes to your workflows, formatting and company standards but it will pay back in time saved and ease of use.

 

Most of the benefits with Revit come because you have to produce the drawing anyway so why not get all the schedules etc for free as a nice by-product. When you start buying your QS and PM team in accurate quantity schedules they generally start to buy into it as it saves them weeks of time on every project.

 

This all requires the model to be good quality, you live and die by the accuracy of your drawings.

 

I hope this helps.

Message 5 of 6
Anonymous
in reply to: scott_dakin

This was fantastic feedback. I appreciate it very much.

Message 6 of 6
MuirEng
in reply to: Anonymous

When you say load calculations you mean mechanical loading yes? I'm not an ME so I don't quite understand what that involves. Revit can do quite a lot for you if you are talking about electrical loads. Just checking... 

Brian Muir, P.Eng, Muir Engineering
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