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This would be great to have. If we were able to miter horizontal with vertical mullions we would be able to use the curtain wall tool for regular windows (instead of creating dozens of window families).
i have a section here showing the vertical mullion, larger than the horizontal one.
we want the vertical mullions to be continuous because they are structural. and we also want the horizontal mullion to be continuous because in elevation it is what we want (and it is how is built).
the issue is : i have to decide which is continuous. but none represent want we want.
We can currently control what mullions are continuous. If all mullions are simple box sections that's fine. But what if we want to go to a higher level of detail? What if we want to create Aluminium composite cladding facades?
Real curtain wall systems need more control over how these all interface:
If you try and create curtain wall mullions with recesses for the glazing to fit in, and want face glazed panels, the way these join is wrong. Currently in Revit the horizontal mullion would stop at the extent of the vertical mullion. Where in reality each part of it should extend until it touches/meets the geometry of the vertical mullion. Likewise trying to get Panels to correctly overlap mullions can be painful. I often use workarounds to not use mullions and have the mullion geometry built directly into the panel to get around this. Something we shouldn't have to do.
It would also be great if Revit actually understood the difference between a "Head", "Jamb", "Transom", "Mullion". That way you could limit certain profiles/mullions so they can only be used in particular conditions/orientations.
Now if Revit had a better curtain wall tool, you could potentially allow bi-directional connectivity between these 2 softwares allowing quick generation of shop drawings and quantification.
I totaly agree... our Company (large curtain wall manufacturer for customized, project specific panels) brought up this topic in 2013 on visiting Revit dev team in Waltham - It seems that there are no improvements at all.
We understand that Revit is not a CAD System for manufacturing but can we at least represent the materials required for installing a curtain wall stick system inside Revit? As above mentioned there many issues.. Profiles may run through and not stop at joints as defined by Revit. So Revit can not be used for even a rough quantity estimation of the individual components.
On jobs with prefabricated unitzed Assemblies we are the missing possiblity to model site materials like starter conditions, fire barriers, membranes, Insert channels, Brackets etc in an efficent way.
Using Revit has also a geometry challenge: Quite often our curtain wall panels are not rectanglular... Intermediate Profiles get arranged and positioned differently inside every Panel. And on many jobs the panels are twisted (out of plane).
Also Why can't we cut CW geometry with a void family like everything else. We have to create special families with solid geometry to be able to cut notches in mullions etc. The cut faces then adopt the cutting family material not the mullion material. Very inconsistent and means we need to the paint face tool a lot.
In my opinion, the interface of the curtain wall as a whole is overdue for an update so I call for a global upgrade. If it does not get support, I'll split the ideas. Thank you for your support!
I'm not sure that I agree but I understand that this is obviously very important to some people. This idea seems like something rather specific and almost niche in nature. It's almost a fabrication issue. I see the curtain wall design tool more as a design intent tool that is to be used in conjunction with detail drawings to show how everything goes together.
I think that I would much rather have Sloping/Slanted Walls before I would want this idea implemented.
@tomek I can see your point but some requests (like the ability to cope/join mullions) are necessary to show design intent. For example: we want to show which mullions need to continue and which ones need to stop, but the current system doesn't allow for very common designs (for example: have vertical mullions be continuous on the inside but horizontal mullions (=caps) be continuous on the outside.
Mullion joins are very limited, especially at angled conditions. There is no good way to clean these up.
Maybe if there was similar join tool like for walls for conditions like these, just horizontal and vertical is not enough. Or better might be a trim command.
Improvements to the CW tools are long overdue, Revit is no longer a tool just for Architects and other consultants to do "Design Intent". Revit is being used for project delivery, this involves specialist contractors re-designing the "Design Intent" so that the items in the model actually reflect what is going to be built. Any changes to the CW Tools should consider making curtain walls (stick curtain walls) to be modelled as they are going to be built. Curtain walls do not usually stop at the border mullions, most vertical mullions extend past the top & bottom transoms, Also note that not all members within a CW are called mullions. Mullions are the vertical (ish) load bearing continuous members, transoms are the horizontal (ish) members running between the mullions. Mullions and transoms require notches and copes in a similar way to structural framing families. All these things are required for fabrication to turn the "Design Intent" into the screen that gets installed on site. If it where easier to have Bi-directional links with other software like Inventor or Solidworks, then maybe these improvements wouldn't be required, as we could take the geometry from Revit. Update the geometry to create the actual CW frame and fabrication info then push this back to Revit for collaboration, coordination and GA & installation detail drawing production. It is hardly niche, most buildings have some form of glazed screen as part of the façade. How do you think these get built?
One extra option for mullions would mean a world of difference: 'join' (same behavior as if you join two extrusions together in a family).
- If they are coplanar and same material = no dividing edge (looks like 1 object)
- If not coplanar or/and different material = the one who is set to 'continuous' cut through the other one but it only cuts out the part it needs, it does not interrupt the other mullion. (=coping)
the vertical mullion needs to continue for support but now it is also interrupting the horizontal mullion. If they would just 'join' (with the vertical one set to priority) they could coexist.Today we have to chose: either vertical or horizontal continues. IF they could join both could continueIf mullions could join we wouldn't have to hide these lines
Can the mitering of mullions be more stable, easier to use, and have more options? The attached image shows a mullion cap that clearly needs a special mitering on 4 ends at the joint. I was able to achieve this by having 2 curtain walls on top of each other, one without panels and vertical mullions, and one with panels and horizontal rails but no verticals. The other way would be to use a generic model at all the verticals or horizontals. Both directions had to be modeled "continuous", but Revit doesn't like that.
We also need skylights to be easier to build. A skylight transitioning to a curtain wall should automatically adjust the mullion to make a clean connection. Right now, there is no easy or hard way of doing this.
@jessytex explorer, thanx we also need to do this it severly limits curtain walls to workarounds that slow workflows because we cant create integrated curtain wall elements.
We should create a button or a on/off option for creating a miter option for all curtain walls. Currently we are doing a historic building upgrade for its title 24 that involves majorly with curtain wall framing. The required aluminum framing with a historic look with the miter on corners and the crossed muntins were required by the federal government agency. But there is no any miter option available. We were forced to make enlarged elevation with a fake 2D sketch to over lay those joints. The commercial frames is available by Graham and Wausau manufacturers but Revit has no such option available.
