Existing Rooms in Demo Views

[adam.ortwein]

I understand that Demo is an action that exists in New Construction, but the industry as a whole usually tags existing rooms in Demolition plans - not New Construction rooms. This is due to the complete picture of an existing floor plan created by Existing to Remain elements + Demolished elements.

The only options we have come up with to fulfill this set requirement are either to overlay another view on the sheet containing only existing room tags, or to use a dummy tag (yuck!). Help us utilize the intelligence of Room information to benefit our set!

[kimberly_fuhrman-jones]

We are updating this thread to Gathering Support. We are continuing to evaluate where this request falls into our roadmap and will provide an update when we have made a decision. 

The Factory

[ViviNyehuusAndersen]

This is possible, you just can´t remove rooms from one phase to another phase. But creating rooms in a given phase only require choosing phase before placing the room. 

[jkidder]

@ViviNyehuusAndersen What we mean by phasing rooms is that we need to be able to adjust the "phase created" and, even more importantly, "phase demolished".  We are well aware that rooms exist in a phase, but we have to overlay views on sheets to get a proper demo plan with room names.  Currently we also have to create and maintain multiple rooms, one for each phase, to represent rooms that exist and are unchanged.  We should be able to have one room that can be created in the existing phase and remain through other phases, the same way walls, casework, plumbing, and other model elements can.

[dan_BIMmanager]

I can not believe we are still battling this phasing issue in 2021. Rooms issues are high up the wish list and voted on by many a frustrated architects. (hundreds!!!)

Rooms (and spaces) need a complete and long overdue ovehall. Yes with phasing and the ability to see and control them in 3d, with color filter and to adjust or edit a boundary shape. Boundary lines are a pain in the ass as they often get left behind, hidden and can be hard to find and can cause problems. Has anything change with rooms in 22 years of development. I have see just about every work around going now after using revit for the last 12 years. Including apps and scrips to create 3d volumes that can represent rooms in 3d. We are still dealing with rooms as 2d representations in sections and plans that is very irritating, especially in complicated shaped rooms (especially in existing historic buildings) where often the limiting modelling tools in revit negate that there are gaps which result in redundant or not enclosed rooms. Why do i even need a room bounding wall, floor or ceiling to place a room form that can calculate the required area and volume?     

Please Harlam and the factory team, if you want to please the ever more frustrated architectural community, rework rooms and spaces. Why can we still not create rooms requirements and effectively create conceptual volumetric models for pre design fases in revit. Luckily there are lots of up and coming AI driven space planning tools on the horizon (also aquired by ADSK). Wouldn´t it be great if we could link or import results from those types of app to proper 3d spaces in revit. Or just have a flexible 3d way of placing room volumes without having to draw the entire building first. I you are worried about forwards compatibility of legacy models. Just keep the old room version tools for some years but completely rebuild the way we deal with new rooms/space volumes. Spaces 2.0 Building owner would also thank you as well. 

[jkidder]

One more reason why we need phased rooms:  It was exciting to see the ability to filter based on phase created/demolished added in 2022, and we thought this would let us get rid of the manual phase parameter we used...except we still can't phase rooms, and we need to identify whether a room is existing or not.  We regularly use a room color scheme to identify rooms that are not in the project scope, but Revit still can't do that out of the box.  Between that and demo plans we waste a lot of time trying to coordinate rooms across phases, especially on larger projects!

[Base12]

2021... still waiting   ANYHOW, if you use the viewport overlay nonsense - to avoid the absurd pain in the butt of constantly entering the wrong viewport when double clicking - get the "Room Names Only" view selected, pin it, then disable the ability to select pinned objects.  Then, it doesn't matter where you double click, it will always put your cursor into the non-room names view.

[purvigirwin]

At least now in 2022 with the ability to use phasing with view filters, you don't have to layer views anymore to get existing rooms on demo plans. Set a view to existing, create a view filter that pick ups elements by "phased demolished equals new construction" and then do an override for that view filter to show dashed or red dashed or whatever your office standard is. This is now my standard for 2022 templates and workflows that require demolition.

[ViviNyehuusAndersen]

https://blog.bimsmith.com/Working-with-Phases-in-Revit?utm_source=eblast&utm_medium=0721&mc_cid=f5a8...

[lionel.kai]

@ViviNyehuusAndersen?

[ViviNyehuusAndersen]

@lionel.kai this was an extension of @purvigirwin  comment, not very clear.

However if you work structured I don't have trouble placing rooms i Existing. And then changing the phase to New and placing the new Rooms. 

[justin.grayF6N2F]

I didn't read each comment but if not mentioned before, I would suggest not only phasing of rooms but phasing of spaces. An issue though would be that a room should only be "phasable" if its boundaries remain undisturbed. So if a room object was created in Phase 1, and by Phase 3 a wall gets demolished, then the room would automatically be limited to Phase Demolished = Phase 3 (or Phase 2) because the geometry has been changed, if that makes sense. Same with spaces. Another limitation would be that room or space's properties would have to either stay the same for that room's existence, so changing occupancy class parameters would mean they are the same whether changed in Phase 1 or Phase 2.

For spaces though a difficulty might lie in it being assigned to a different HVAC zone depending on the phase if you're getting that far into the weeds.

[LeeFried]

How has this not yet been implemented?

[nemdaec10]

UPDATE - SOLUTION (Revit 2022 or later): A little tedious upfront but a new solution is now available. Now you can apply a view filter to a view that will allow you to show other phase demo work in the pre-demo phase. 

1. Set view phase to EXISTING

2. Phase filter can be set to Previous & New. 

3. In your Demo View Template, go to Filters tab & click Add. 

4. Create a new filter (I call mine DEMO PHASING) & select Define Rules (if it isn't already selected)

5. Under Categories, check all items in the filter list that you want to show up as demolished in your demolition plans. 

6. Under Filter Rules: All Selected - Phase Demolished

7. Under equals: NEW CONSTRUCTION (Click Apply/OK) & go back to the top-level Filters tab. 

8. Check Enable Filter / Visibility 

9. Set overrides to make the items to be demolished look as they should in your Demolition view. 

It would seem to be easier if they would have set up a default filter (another column in the phase filter) that allows you to set the Room & Space phase to be shown, but until then, this is better than overlaying 2 floor plans (IMO). 

[nemdaec10]

If any element that would change the parameters of a room (demo or new wall, new door, square-foot change, etc) were to change, the room information would become unstable so the room cannot extend beyond the static phase that it was placed in. If you think about it, every component in Revit is static, but with doors, walls, windows, or any other component, they are placed within a phase and remain unchanged until they are demolished. Any change between phases that would alter the static nature of a room (see above) would destabilize the room. 

In Revit 2022 (I'm not certain that this existed previously) A better workaround has been found with only a minor brain bender required on the user's part to allow the existing or previous phased rooms to show up in the demolition phase: 

1. Create a view of the existing phase with the phase filter set to Previous & New.
2. In Visibility/Graphics Overrides (In your view template if you will have multiple demo views such as plan, RCP, & multiple phases), go to the Filters tab. At the bottom, click on the box Edit/New to modify document filters.
3. Create a new Rule-based Filter for each new construction phase of your project, calling it Demolition, or Demolition-Phase 1... (Make sure you have the new Filter set to Define rules).
4. Check every category that you may have items to demolish. (Some categories can't be added because they aren't phase specific)
5. Filter Rules: AND (All rules must be true), All Selected..., Phase Demolished, equals, Phase 1 (or whatever phase you are setting the filter for). Apply/OK.
6. Back at the Filters tab, Add your Demolition filter. Set your overrides in Project/Surface & Cut to show all of your demo items correctly in the view.

Remember: You will want to create a view template set for each phase & view type needed. Each view will be set to the existing or previous phase, allowing the correct rooms to show. 

We have put this into our Project Templates and it is working quite well. 

[adam.ortwein]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not too keen on recommending a workflow that replicates a fundamental function of Revit (Phasing) with other tools. Adopting these mimicry workflows reduces the transparency in how models are put together, and with the project team sizes we manage, we can't afford to explore these paths. I'll wait until the Revit teams figure out how to attach phasing information to Rooms. If a bounding element changes, I'm confident there would be a way to automate the next step without compromising the stability of Rooms in the model.

[francisco.perez33CBU]

Please add the possibility to show the existing rooms in the NEW phase. On projects of HUGE areas this is required and we always end up adding CAD-Links, but will be better if all is in Revit. The copy/paste supposed solution is not an option, since the room name/numbers keep changing in evolving project, and if you have 5 phases, you have to rework everything again and again. 

[nemdaec10]

If any element that would change the parameters of a room (demo or new wall, new door, square-foot change, etc) were to change, the room information would become unstable so the room cannot extend beyond the static phase that it was placed in. If you think about it, every component in Revit is static, but with doors, walls, windows, or any other component, they are placed within a phase and remain unchanged until they are demolished. Any change between phases that would alter the static nature of a room (see above) would destabilize the room's parameter values (changes in area, boundaries, and affecting elements make those values invalid).

In Revit 2022 (I'm not certain that this existed in 2021) A better workaround has been found with only a minor brain bender required on the user's part to allow the existing or previous phased rooms to show up in the demolition phase: 

1. Create a view of the existing phase with the phase filter set to Previous & New.
2. In Visibility/Graphics Overrides (In your view template if you will have multiple demo views such as plan, RCP, & multiple phases), go to the Filters tab. At the bottom, click on the box Edit/New to modify document filters.
3. Create a new Rule-based Filter for each new construction phase of your project, calling it Demolition, or Demolition-Phase 1... (Make sure you have the new Filter set to Define rules).
4. Check every category that you may have items to demolish. (Some categories can't be added because they aren't phase-specific)
5. Filter Rules: AND (All rules must be true), All Selected..., Phase Demolished, equals, Phase 1 (or whatever phase you are setting the filter for). Apply/OK.
6. Back at the Filters tab, Add your Demolition filter. Set your overrides in Project/Surface & Cut to show all of your demo items correctly in the view.

Remember: You will want to create a view template set for each phase & view type needed. Each view will be set to the existing or previous phase, allowing the correct rooms to show. 

We have put this into our Project Templates and it is working quite well. 

[NateBrush]

Any update where this falls on the roadmap?

[Base12]

@NateBrush

Probably somewhere around here...

 

[j.muntz]

This should be an easy fix for Autodesk. All that needs to happen here is existing rooms are displayed in demolition plans and new rooms are not when phase filter is set to 'show previous and demo'. Rooms could also have a demolished phase just like everything else. The existing rooms are bounded by the walls that exist in the same phase as the room.

This is a fundamental requirement for documenting existing buildings. It should have been fixed years ago. Come on Autodesk pull your finger out! Its rediculous!