3d Grids for 3d views

[mariopozzo]

I have found that making 3d grids out of extrusions and model text is extremely helpful when navigating 3d models during coordination or reviewing models in any 3d space.  Its easy to make in Revit but not user friendly or great. If this was automatically generated i am sure the people would rejoice!

If grids created in 2d views could automatically be generated and displayed in 3d space (perhaps allow the z elevation to be controlled as a host or work plane?) it would be amazing.  The current option for grids into of navisworks is not very helpful or clear as the linework depends on the perspective that you're viewing the model.

[GHASEM_ARIYANI]

hi @mariopozzo

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/show-levels-and-grids-in-3d-views/idi-p/6497558

[Anonymous]

 As long as this will work with Navis too!  We are on the same page.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Pasting this here.  Looks like Levels has been accepted, but we still have to sell everybody on 3D grids:

Allowing 3-dimensional Gridlines would be very powerful. Seems like inclusion of REFERENCE LINES at the Project Level would be a start. After that, allowing Reference Lines to be NAMED would be even better (as well as allowing access to a reference line's workplanes, both along its length and perpendicular planes at its ends, by Name). Then, add the rest of grid functionality (category assignment, grid bubble tagging options, breaks in grid per view, as well as structural member association).

In addition, after POLYLINES have been implemented in Revit, Multi-segmented grids could be made on the fly by joining grid segments-- this could work for 2D AND 3D grids. I know what you're thinking: how can we implement Reference Lines or 3D grids, which would likely be driven by end points that are sometimes shared among separate lines/grids and would want to be controlled by a shared POINT, if Reference POINTS aren't accessible at the Project Level? Answer: Reference POINTS should be accessible at Project Level, be namable, and be autonomous to move independent of Reference Planes. (This functionality is already somewhat possible using Adaptive point families).

Given the increase in parametric processes and structural integration, and that these workflows rely heavily on points, lines/arcs/curves, polylines/polycurves, and Nurbs curves, Revit should make a real and strategic effort to maintain and Improve these functionalities on its end, even if only to talk better with Dynamo, and hopefully in a way that is also useful without it.

[lionel.kai]

@mariopozzo Could you give more details on your "3d grids out of extrusions and model text" workaround? Maybe a Screencast?

[joslindave]

Bumping this again as this part needs to be completed as well as the 3D levels that were accepted. Please make sure you click the "Vote Up" button!

For my 2 cents, I think it should work like the 3D levels/grids/reference planes from old Vasari (and the conceptual modeling environment). Also has the benefit that it should be easier to implement, since they've already done it...

[Curty102]

Seems like there are 2 versions of 3d grids, both very valid:

1. Currently, grids are 2D reference planes with finite width and height (essentially a reference plane). The line representation of the grid plane only shows up in a view exactly in line with (and intersecting the extents of) the plane. Upgrade 1 would be to see the grid LINES in ANY view, including Axons/Cameras. The lines would be generated by a grid (its plane) intersecting with another plane(s). This would first include Levels, but should additionally include Reference Planes (and extra credit to Autodesk for including any surfaces/faces selectable as workplanes). @mariopozzo 's image shows the grid name inserted into the grid line in 3D views to make identity clear.

The other upgrade here is similar to the request for 3D Levels: Give the option to see the rectangular perimeter of the grid plane (and even the plane itself) in 3D. Name could also be inserted into the perimeter line here.

2. ACTUAL 3D grids. They would behave more like Reference LINES than Planes. They would have end POINTS. These end points may have a host level, but could move in 3 dimensions freely. These end points could also host onto other objects (Reference Points, also: lines, surfaces, planes). Additionally they could be chained together as 3D Multi-segment Grids, and could include arcs.

Extra credit for including reference planes along the line's length and at ends (like ref lines).

cheerio

[RPTHOMAS108]

In a 3D view there should be some way by now of showing the grids projected onto a plane. We often send 3D images back and forth during co-ordination exercises and grid display is useful to identify an area.

Have a routine for doing this with 3D model text but grids shown in 3D should be something which is inherent to Revit, Navis has it.

One approach could be to take the grid extent from a certain plan view and project it onto a certain level or picked flat plane (normal equal to 0,0,1) with an offset i.e. doesn't even require 3D grips etc. can do this with existing defined 2D grid extents.

[Anonymous]

About time! Great minds think alike! 

[IhsanGinBaker]

Native support for this would be great! There are 3rd party families out there constructed of model lines with text and such but native 3D grid family is long needed.

[pawelpiechnik]

hi,

We are collecting requirements for the 3D grids in Revit. Could you help us and share your individual "Whys" ? Why do you need  3D grids in Revit ? What workflows would that enable ? is the current limitation preventing you from doing something that would make you more productive?  etc ...

thank you for your input in advance 

[IhsanGinBaker]

Here they go, in no particular order;

1. So that during a meeting with others (within or outside our organization) we don't have to constantly answer "wait, where is that?"

2. We are not always (in fact hardly ever) the end user of our models. Most of the time, we export the model to be used as a layout tool for field engineers, and they expect to see a 3D gridline, which Revit does not export out.

3. Coordination and clash detection: I know Navisworks nwc includes gridlines, but they are finicky and often confuses others.

4. As someone else mentioned it, sharing screenshots/images of areas to be coordinated becomes at least a multi step exercise with screen capturing a 3D image from Revit, and then at least get a second one on 2D plane to identify the location.

However, for us, item 2 above is the most important, along with sorting out all the .ifc export idiosyncrasies, but that is a matter for further discussion on another thread.

[Curty102]

Why 3D Grids?:

1.  Complex Structural Frames / Networks - This would globally improve difficulties with sloped or triangulated structural designs / members.  This would greatly enhance ability to edit structural intersections by moving a shared reference point instead of editing each structural member individually.  Would also greatly improve Revit Structural analysis and Load Paths for triangulated frames.  All of this functionality in the project setting with context, instead of isolated in an external Mass or Adaptive Point family, would be more valuable than gold.

2a.  Complex Geometry / Networks - This would better support current trends of triangulated node networks.  The infrastructure developed for 3D grids could easily extend to / support associated geometry hung on such frameworks (Adaptive Families, Sweep paths).

2b.  Complex Data Relationships / Networks - In addition to being useful for geometry, this infrastructure could enable numerous pathways for DATA.  Exiting routes/analysis, structural load paths, site water flow/drainage, sloped piping design, Smoke Ventilation.  This data (even if generated externally from Dynamo or other) could be made persistent when deposited in Revit through parameters of Nodes and Paths.

3a.  Intelligent Pathways (Continuous) - As connectivity between Civil3D and Revit ramps up (via direct translation tools as well as through Dynamo) having object classes in Revit that more closely relate to object classes in Civil3D (alignments, profiles) could reap huge benefits.  A big pain point in Revit has long been multi-segment lines/curves of unknown lengths.  This has traditionally been handled with either a series of lines (when planar) or an Adaptive Point Family of a very specific point count(when non-planar).  A 3D pathway class in Revit that could manage inserting points internally or at at the path's ends would be universally useful for a number of parallel software packages (Civil3D, Fusion360, Inventor, Structure, Plumbing).  Extra credit for enabling arc segments.  Big Extra credit for enabling Splines/Nurbs segment classes to participate.

3b.  Pathways (Split, Joined) - As an enhancement to above, enabling split and joined paths may be inherently achieved through 3D grids and node/path networks.  There could be big implications here for Split Corridors in Civil3D and for accessibility to T-Splines.  Node / Path Networks could even double as a foundation for an improved Revit Topography class.

So many possibilities!  😃

Nick

[lionel.kai]

For us, the need is simple - just knowing where we are. Right now, you have to select something at a known location (in a 2D view) before going to 3D, otherwise you might be in trouble (especially with a symmetrical building - is this the front or back?) or need to count bays, etc.

Currently, when a grid moves (for example), we have to select the grid and a model element in a 2D view, then select the rest of the stuff in 3D before moving it all. Not sure if having 3D grids would prevent us from going to 2D views, since we'll still need to move annotation, sections, etc.

Related to the screenshot reason by a previous poster: the representation of the grids in 3D would need to be adjustable or at least follow the crop box (when active).

Back when we were first exposed to Revit (and saw this limitation), my first thought was that we'd just export the Grids to CAD and then link them in. But because it's not "live", and is an extra step, we wound up just dealing with the limitation (and selection workaround)... years later, we're still here. 😞

[Anonymous]

This is really important and I think it should be implemented.

[bvillarreal-datumsa]

3D Grids Needs to happen...

Perfect Revit World, you open up a default 3d view, you see all the 3D grids on the current Level. Not reference plans only levels. Ok maybe all levels and ref. planes.

[catalin_lang]

Hi,

We would like to better understand how 3D Grids would help you in your daily workflow. 

We would like to hear from you. This should take about 2 minutes. 

https://autodeskfeedback.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_1ETEqZdzqFM5lAN

Thank you!

[kimberly_fuhrman-jones]

Congrats! We think this is a great idea, so we've decided to add it to our roadmap. Thanks for the suggestion!

The Factory

[bvillarreal-datumsa]

really!!!!!! I MEAN WHY NOT RIGHT, LEVELS ARE 3D NOW, GRIDS ARE SAD AND
LEFT OUT.......


[image: image.png]

CAN U REFERENCE ME?

DATUMENGINEERS.COM

[lsuuronen]

Lack of grids in 3D views is a real drag on productivity in model coordination. F. ex. while importing issues with the Bimcollab BCF manager, the reported objects are isolated in a 3D view. Since there's often little visible context otherwise, it sometimes takes a bit of an effort to locate the object in the model in order to reconcile the issue. Grids in 3D views alone would make it a lot easier to work on the coordination issues.

[kimberly_fuhrman-jones]

We are pleased to say that this has been implemented in Revit 2022!

-The Factory