Schedule family XYZ location coordinates

[RickLight]

I'm very much a Revit newbie, but have used many CAD packages that can do what I think is simple task.

I need dynamic schedules with basic X,Y,Z location data, relative to a certain point in the project. So far I have set my project origin to this point in hopes of making this job easier. The dynamic part is key, because during the design process my custom families are moving in small and large distances, and being added and deleted, etc. So importing and exporting would be a royal pain.

I've been playing with using distance from a point as a family parameter, but it's getting complex and may force me into typing in all dimensions rather that drawing them.

If I read this thread correctly https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-architecture-forum/co-ordinates-schedule-is-it-possible/m-p/782... then Revit is incapable! As I am on LT I don't seem to have Dynamo, and am not really interested in learning yet another macro language.

HELP!

[ToanDN]

Without any add-in, you do have to export to AutoCAD and run a Data Extraction.  It isn't as complicated as it sounds, and you don't have redo the entire process with the Revit model is updated.

- Export Revit model to DWG-1

- Xref DWG-1 into a blank DWG-2 and run Data Extraction there

- when Revit model is updated, export it again to override DWG-1

- open DWG-2 and refresh the Data Extraction and it will pick up the updated Xref DWG-1)

[RickLight]

Well I'm not running AutoCAD either.

My current major tool is Vectorworks, but my Architect clients want Revit files. I find it very strange that the basics of CAD, XYZ coordinates are almost unavailable.

[ToanDN]

You can do it with 2-point adaptive families.  1st point placed on the Base Point (your imaginary 0,0,0), 2nd point is where the family actually located.  But again, you probably do not have adaptive families either.

[RickLight]

So close, assuming I could schedule those values.

Unfortunately adaptive points aren't in LT.

To be honest that's the first thing that's come up that I have any interest in getting. I'm a theatrical consultant, the word I hear is that most similar consultants find Revit (any version) overly limiting.

Thanks for trying!

[cbcarch]

Rick,

Don't give up on Revit so fast.

Check this out:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enscape-update-bryan-sutton-talks-set-design-revit-phil-read

[RickLight]

Oh, I haven't given up, just frustrated at what should be simple. And perusing th e forum I'm not the only one with this issue.

FYI That article has some nice pictures, but that work has nothing to do with what I do.

[ToanDN]

I would consider getting a full Revit version instead of Revit LT if I start picking up Revit work.  The difference is day and night.

[RickLight]

Can you give me specifics?

I'm an oddball MEP like consultant but none of those tools apply. Take a look at Vectorworks Spotlight stage curtains and lighting functions. How can I do any of that? I can't even find an equivalent of complex line types (beyond dashes) or alignment of large groups of objects.

I've been drafting for decades. I'm here to learn what isn't obvious!

[cbcarch]

Sorry--I thought theatrical consultants did quite a bit of work similar to what was included in that link.

So, please share with us what exactly you do--which will help us help you.

Also, please be more specific about what you are frustrated about--and I'd bet that some good solutions will be provided here. 

Yes--Revit does have a lot of "workarounds"--so just learn to go with it and not fight it, or compare it to "xyz software".

[RobDraw]

Whenever someone says "It seems like such a simple thing. XYZ program does it.", I say that Revit is nothing like XYZ and it's not fair to compare the platforms.

Stop comparing Revit to those other programs. It is a totally different beast when it comes to coordinates. It can do things that those other programs cannot do and it can't things that they can.

[ToanDN]

---

@RickLight wrote:
Can you give me specifics?

---

Conceptual mass, adaptive component, more extensive in place modeling, worksharing, view filters, dynamo, add-ins.

Those are things that I deem important.  For a full comparison you can look here:

https://www.autodesk.com/compare/compare-features/revit-vs-revit-lt

[RickLight]

Let's not confuse XYZ companies with XYZ coordinates 😉  Frankly, I'll take a good idea no matter where it comes from. I'm not comparing software generally only pointing to specific features that have made major improvements in my industry.

There's lots I love about Revit, but it's still a database of coordinates, no matter how advanced the tools to build it, there is no other method for describing geometry let alone computerizing it. Yet those values are hidden from me, and I get told 'different' not 'why'.

Theatrical Consultants work with Architects on presentation oriented buildings. (We don't work on the productions themselves but most of us have done that too. Film work almost a separate industry due to it's "capture once, process later" methods.) Live performance theaters, churches, lecture halls, conventions centers/hotels, TV & film studios, and sports centers that plan on hosting events are the bulk of the work. Theaters (to use the most general term) can be the most complex spaces anywhere. I sometimes call them factories for emotions. I also like to point out that the stage space is a minor part, like the proverbial tip of an iceberg. Rigging, lighting, controls, audio, video, communications, material handling, circulation, public access all in what is really a single room. Everything must be extremely flexible, human controlled and typically funded at bare bones levels.

Some of us are architects and will take on the entire building. I'm not. We do a lot of work on school theaters from elementary to colleges and churches. We advise the architect on the design of the space, (sight-lines, traffic flow, seating-to-stage relationships) but they do the drawings with the rest of the building. Then we design and specify the technical systems to meet the program. Lighting, rigging, etc. all the stuff that nobody else on the team understands. Naturally we do tight coordination with mechanical, structural, and electrical. I don't need their tools, I just have to communicate well. (Did you know that stage lights are usually moved for every production? You can't engineer for a production you must do so for all possible productions! Getting that idea across is critical.)

This whole coordinates thing is a primary and telling need of how I (and similar designers) work. All theaters have an inherent coordinate system. Sticking with traditional proscenium theaters, there is a center line through the stage and seating. Across that is the proscenium arch with it's backside called the plasterline. These form a simple grid with the crossing point as the XY origin. Stage floor level is Z=0" and nearly everything is measured from there, even if it isn't dimensioned on the plans. You've probably all heard of 'stage left' and 'stage right' directions. There is a whole lingo surrounding that coordinate systems. 'Up' and 'down' stage refer to closer or further from the audience. (From greek sloped amphitheaters.) 'House' directions are from the audiences point of view, which is the opposite of the actors and so gets newcomers confused. Touring shows often have big number lines painted on their flooring so the actors can be precise no matter what town they are in that day. So being able to place, and report locations based on this basic system is a huge need of all theater people. To us it's as fundamental as North, South, East, West.

Other specific needs;

• Movement - showing something in multiple locations/conditions. Clearance zones only do half the job and there would be so many overlapping that collision checking would be difficult. Heck just call the whole space a clearance zone!
• Curved floors - not stairs but 3D multiple curves. I haven't looked for that one, but several others have told me it can't be done. Expand that to curved, sloped, stepped walls, roofs and any other element. Theaters are built to be different and even artistic!
• Family  creation - I'm a newbie yet expected to create the fine details of products. So much of the learning curve bears little resemblance to what I normally do. Several manufacturers have made things, with extreme and irrelevant details but not the features that seem logical to me.
• Then there are the 'work result' products - When most of a system is custom built all this family/type/parameter work will become irrelevant in the next project. I expected to spend a fair amount of time learning, but throwing most of it all way for every project? How about being less detail oriented but fully communicative.

I'm sure I'll come up with more challenges as I get into this. My first Revit project is only at 50% DD!

So far, adaptive points might work. I'll probably get the full version demo again just to check this out.

What is an Embedded Schedule separate from other Schedules?

"In Place" modeling may also be more important than I thought at first.

What else have you got?

[cbcarch]

-Points, dimensions, lines, 2D and 3D datum, complex 3D parametric objects, movable lighting, can all be laid out in Revit.

For example, in our healthcare work, we design and build Hybrid Operating Rooms where open heart surgery is performed. Talk about a complex situation. Robotic equipment which moves and rotates over the patient. The patient table rotates for various teams and procedures.

All of the equipment is tagged and scheduled. Multiple scenarios are used for various operating procedures.

Highly specialized lighting and camers/surveillance systems. Laminar flow HVAC for infection control. We use our Revit models to bring the room into VR ( virtual reality ) to show the surgeons the space, ceiling mounted lights and booms, which all move, as well as fixed and movable equipment, for review/comment/approval, before it is built.

So--don't feel alone in your world of a dynamic, complex environment designing and documenting with Revit.

And in our projects, we are helping save lives. Our clients REQUIRE a complete Enhanced Integration Project Delivery using BIM ( not just Revit ) in their contracts. So--look at the positives and try to be creative and find ways to solve problems with the tools. Just think a few years from now, you will look back and remember your 1st Revit project and laugh about how far you have come.

[RobDraw]

So, no disrespect but anyone that is passionate about what they do can make it sound like it is amazing.

I actually would totally be into doing what you do, @RickLight.

@cbcarch, I did hospital MEP renovations in 2D AutoCAD for quite a few years. Loved it. Couldn't wait for 3D to kick in.

Specialized trades need specialized software and that can come in the form of an add-on, vertical, or even totally different software. You said that all theaters have an inherent coordinate system, probably with a fixed origin. Revit doesn't care about coordinates. The base points are really arbitrary. Revit doesn't care about them. The locations of most Revit elements are based off of anything but the base points.

Can Revit do all of what you want it to do? Probably, but it's gonna a good amount of customization.

Can it do it the way you want to do it? Probably not, especially when it comes to how you present your information. Revit has limitations that XYZ software can easily do. (BTW, I thought that "generic" acronym very apropos for this topic.)

[chrisjones4299]

Is this still a limitation in Revit 2022? I also need to dynamically schedule element coordinates (i.e. something that automatically updates as my model changes). I looked all over but couldn't see where to do this.

[stevebenbim]

Not yet possible out of the box as far as I'm aware. I used the adaptive point trick a long time ago but it quickly gets super heavy for the number of elements we have.

So ultimately you'll need a plugin or a good Dynamo script. This one has automatic parameter updates.