Revit Backward Compatibility - For client's working with older versions of Revit, how do you do this exchange?

[yara.cp.pereira]

When submitting a Revit Project to clients (either .rvt. or .rfa),

How do you make sure that clients working with older versions of Revit (ie.: Revit 2016), will be able open/work on your project/family files?

1 – You send the file and let the client do the workaround suggested by Autodesk (link) ?

2 – You do the workaround yourself and save the file in a version not older than 3 versions below the one you are currently using (ie.: if you are using Revit 2022 you will only be to save it back to Revit 2019)?

3 – Other (Leave your comment bellow)

[RDAOU · Accepted solution]

@yara.cp.pereira 

I wonder why your client is stuck with the earlier version..

Anyhow, with every project, there is a CIR. You should check what is stated there. Does it state any version of revit or does it explicitly stated that it should be 2019. If the latter, then you need work out a compromise.

• If nothing is stated I would opt for IFC period. I would not go through any workarounds. Once you start doing that, it is never ending. Besides it will not really be a Revit model...regradless if you use the IFC to generate a .rvt or if you export to DWG and bring back in into an older version
• convince them to upgrade!

[yara.cp.pereira]

Hi @RDAOU thanks for your thoughts. 

It was a hypothetic question on how to proceed in this case. I went to check what Autodesk proposes, but that workaround did not seem to be a good solution for the long term and also a lot of data is lost in that process. I was then wondering what other industry professionals are doing in these cases.

But you gave it a very complete explanation again! I know that when converting a rvt/rfa to IFC, there are data losses, but I don't know until what extent. What is your experience when it comes to exporting rvt/rfa to IFC?

[RDAOU]

@yara.cp.pereira 

By default not everything is exported but that doesn't mean that Data is lost...it is just that you will need to set up all the required property sets which need to be exported to IFC... Generating the .rvt from that IFC will basically contain all the data sets you exported but the elements generated would only be in a non-native/non-parametric state (like a wall would still be a wall just not the Basic System family wall.)

To DWG export is usually used for families (here no data is transferred other than the geometry)...I do not personally use it, I prefer direct shapes.

[HVAC-Novice]

I won't be able to help... but say, if you make accommodations to help people on old versions, we will never be able to get them to a new version. It is like if you do everything for your child instead of teaching them to do it themselves. 

Once you help them to be able to keep their old version, you will have to do that all the time. 

As you found out, there isn't a great way to use the BIM in older versions. Better communicate it is isn't practical instead of hacking it. 

[barthbradley]

What about View Only Access? Upload the file to the Autodesk Viewer or BIM 360 Document Management is another option.

[syman2000]

You can send them naviswork model coordination. Revit 2018 and higher able to read this. I used this quite a bit for coordination purposes.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

I would avoid this circumstance in the first place.  When the contract is being discussed, and before *anything* is signed, file versions is discussed as part of deliverables.  If necessary a BIM coordinator or software specialist is included to provide relevant information on restrictions and capabilities so no one is blindsided.  If the project is expected to take a long time, say 5+ years, then language is baked into the contract to accommodate a version update via set procedures.

If the client still insists on using an older version of a upgrade-only program then project management is made painfully aware of the problems, such as acquiring licenses to older versions, and they take that into consideration.  Typically the client is convinced to upgrade, or the work is turned down.  It's almost unheard of to have something like software/file compatibility come up only at the end when deliverables are being prepared.

I've been through this with point clouds.  ONCE.  After that incident, the powers-that-be made sure that such things were discussed up front.

[barthbradley]

...if the client is valued, but refuses to pay to upgrade - then buy him the software and eat the cost.  

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

Usually I see in general contractor companies, they have at least 3-4 different versionr of Revit. In the beginning of the project, the software's version should be discussed and mentioned in BEP or project documentation. 
With my experience, the conflict of different versions often occurs when using outsourcing team or freelancer. 

[HVAC-Novice · Accepted solution]

BTW, here the reasons you can't save backwards:

https://revitlink.blogspot.com/2017/05/why-is-revit-not-backwards-compatible.html

The greatest challenge i see when you have to design multiple projects in multiple versions is that if you create a cool family in the current version, you would want to use that in the older project. One could develop this family in an older version, but if you have the family-need in your newest project first, it would be cumbersome to develop the family in an older version. Older Revit versions also may not support all the features you want in a family. 

Like with all software, best to force everyone to be on a current version. Maybe have a stipulation that it will be upgraded once the first Revit service pack has been published. ay no one has to feel like a guinea pig. 

With windows 11 coming up, I suspect older Revit versions may not be supported well. 

[RobDraw · Accepted solution]

---

@yara.cp.pereira wrote:

It was a hypothetic question on how to proceed in this case. 

---

It's a trick question. Revit 101 tells us that everyone working on a project should be on the same version and build.

[yara.cp.pereira]

That would be a great solution, if my clients didn't have to work on the files.

[yara.cp.pereira]

Hi @Anonymous thanks for your reply, very concise, with a straightforward overview of the consequences !

I'll make sure that the versions of the software are discussed upfront and previewed in the BEP. Or when no BEP is in place, convince clients to upgrade!

[yara.cp.pereira]

@RDAOU, so when converting into an IFC file, a parametric family (for e.g with array formulas and/or statement formulas, etc) will lose all the types created and consequently its parameters?

@HVAC-Novice I believe you might also be able to help on this one, since you were talking about "cool families". I suppose that a cool family, is a family that loses its parameters?

[HVAC-Novice]

I only work in Revit and in the same version. Every time you convert to some other format, standard etc. you lose something. 

I only work in the current version and every sub-consultant I hire (i.e.  structural) is required to be on the current version. I don't provide backwards versions, or different formats. I'm not a Starbucks barista that makes special drinks with 1.25 pumps of hazelnut syrup and 0.236% milk just because they feel 0.237% milk is bad. If a person needs something from my BI model, I give them the rvt file and they can figure out if and how they get dwg, IFC or whatever they want from my file.  Not my problem. 

By "cool" I meant a family that is good and meets my needs and often took some time to develop  and test. It is impossible to develop a family outside the context of the project it is needed since you need to test if it works properly under all circumstances. So the need for the family arises in a current project, which is in R2022. That way the functioning family also will be 2022 version and will be useless for older versions. 

With increasing enforcement of the subscription model, I was hoping this "old version" issue would disappear since people would have to pay for the new version regardless. 

[barthbradley]

I thought we were talking about submitting a Revit Project to a Client (e.g. the person or entity commissioning, overseeing and paying for the work) who has an older version of Revit -- assuming you want the Client's business.  

The cheapest and easiest (e.g. least problematic) solution would be to upgrade the client to the version the team is working on.  That's how we would roll (and have rolled in the past).  

[HVAC-Novice]

From a technical point it doesn't matter who the person is that requires the older (or different) format. Revit works all the same...

Unless the client put it in writing in the beginning that they want a specific version, I would give them what I have. If the client insisted for whatever reason upfront to get an older version, I probably would charge them more since much of the work would be less efficient and they sure would rather upgrade their version. 

If the client wrote into the contract to use Revit 2016, and the designer ignored that and used a newer version, then yes, it would be the designer's problem to satisfy the client at the designer's cost. But if no version was specified by the client, then that is what they get. And if you as the designer buy the client's new Revit version, they only have it for the duration of the annual subscription. So it wouldn't be that helpful long term anyway. 

Obviously you have to look at the specific contract. But if deliverables are added later on (i.e. an older Revit version), that is an added cost. 

I would hope a client would be happy about the fact that the expensive designer they hire uses modern methods inc. modern software. 

[ojo.semilla]

I have read the solutions, IFC seems to be the shortest route to share information. But seems that it (compatibility) can’t be done so far. Not even with obvious limitations due to new versions features. I appreciate the input given. And want to add a slightly different perspective, as someone mentioned this might happen when working with freelancers for example. But how about students that have to install oldest versions due to their machine capacity. This makes it harder for underserved communities to access and use the latest version and features. While limits the communication and interaction between users.