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@Anonymous wrote:
I'm trying to monitor structural floors and columns.
Just to be clear, does that mean you are trying to monitor between categories? In other words monitor the relationship between a floor and a column? If so then that isn't how it works. It monitors column and column (link) or floor and floor (link).
Steve Stafford
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@Anonymous wrote:
I'm trying to monitor structural floors and columns.
Just to be clear, does that mean you are trying to monitor between categories? In other words monitor the relationship between a floor and a column? If so then that isn't how it works. It monitors column and column (link) or floor and floor (link).
Steve Stafford
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Let's go back to the beginning: "Why does Monitor and Copy/Monitor exist?"
Revit was originally one product, primarily for architects but it had some structural features too. The new separate Revit Structure product was introduced in 2005. This increased the number of circumstances that different project files were used to do our design work.
The architect (A) and structural engineer (SE) both need grids in their models to keep things organized and make it easier to adjust/create documents according to their own needs.
Enter Copy/Monitor...
Assuming the architect starts a project and hires a structural engineer, the SE starts their project by linking the A model and then uses Copy/Monitor to both acquire and monitor their own copies of the A grids. That's Copy/Monitor. It makes it easy to create elements I don't have my own version of yet as well as establish a monitored relationship.
Now for Monitor only, assume the same as above except the SE decides to draw their own grids on top of the A grids, for example maybe they started by sketching out their concept before the A model was available. Using Monitor they select each A grid and then the corresponding SE grid. Now Revit is watching those grids, concerned about position and its name. If those change an alert will appear the next time the link is reloaded.
Copy/Monitor acts on single category relationships, not between categories. My column and their column can be Monitored (Select Link Option). Also my Column A and my Column B can be monitored (Use Current Project option).
It is not a watch this singular element tool, it is a watch/compare this element to another element (of the same category) either in a linked file (most common) or in the same file (pretty rare). The reason it works this way is that many of the elements that are meant to be monitored are required by more than one discipline. The A wants a grid and the SE wants their own grid to be able to adjust its extents or appearance according to their own documentation standards. These separate grids need to be coordinated...that's where Monitor enters the conversation. The Copy part is just a faster way to create my own copies of elements I need my own copy of...but must be kept in sync with the other discipline's copy.
I realize from your writing that you'd like it to work differently. Hopefully the above background information will help you understand what sort of practical problems it was intended to deal with.
Steve Stafford
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Let's go back to the beginning: "Why does Monitor and Copy/Monitor exist?"
Revit was originally one product, primarily for architects but it had some structural features too. The new separate Revit Structure product was introduced in 2005. This increased the number of circumstances that different project files were used to do our design work.
The architect (A) and structural engineer (SE) both need grids in their models to keep things organized and make it easier to adjust/create documents according to their own needs.
Enter Copy/Monitor...
Assuming the architect starts a project and hires a structural engineer, the SE starts their project by linking the A model and then uses Copy/Monitor to both acquire and monitor their own copies of the A grids. That's Copy/Monitor. It makes it easy to create elements I don't have my own version of yet as well as establish a monitored relationship.
Now for Monitor only, assume the same as above except the SE decides to draw their own grids on top of the A grids, for example maybe they started by sketching out their concept before the A model was available. Using Monitor they select each A grid and then the corresponding SE grid. Now Revit is watching those grids, concerned about position and its name. If those change an alert will appear the next time the link is reloaded.
Copy/Monitor acts on single category relationships, not between categories. My column and their column can be Monitored (Select Link Option). Also my Column A and my Column B can be monitored (Use Current Project option).
It is not a watch this singular element tool, it is a watch/compare this element to another element (of the same category) either in a linked file (most common) or in the same file (pretty rare). The reason it works this way is that many of the elements that are meant to be monitored are required by more than one discipline. The A wants a grid and the SE wants their own grid to be able to adjust its extents or appearance according to their own documentation standards. These separate grids need to be coordinated...that's where Monitor enters the conversation. The Copy part is just a faster way to create my own copies of elements I need my own copy of...but must be kept in sync with the other discipline's copy.
I realize from your writing that you'd like it to work differently. Hopefully the above background information will help you understand what sort of practical problems it was intended to deal with.
Steve Stafford
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@Anonymous
If you really want to do it, you need to create at least one dummy element in the host to monitor elements of the same category from the link. Dummy elements can be placed in a OFF workset/ different Phase/ remote location, or any other means so that they don't interfere with your working model. Create a dedicated monitoring view to show the dummy elements and the link, run the Monitor command and you can use one element to monitor multiple link elements.
@Anonymous
If you really want to do it, you need to create at least one dummy element in the host to monitor elements of the same category from the link. Dummy elements can be placed in a OFF workset/ different Phase/ remote location, or any other means so that they don't interfere with your working model. Create a dedicated monitoring view to show the dummy elements and the link, run the Monitor command and you can use one element to monitor multiple link elements.
That sounds terrifying, lol. I'll do that if I can't convince my boss to use BIM 360 Teams, which has an excellent model compare feature.
Thanks for the clever hack!
That sounds terrifying, lol. I'll do that if I can't convince my boss to use BIM 360 Teams, which has an excellent model compare feature.
Thanks for the clever hack!
Thanks!
@Anonymous wrote:
Hi Steve,
Copy/Monitor works almost perfectly for grids and levels. One thing I don't like is that it won't inform you of new elements.
I often tell people that the tabs in the Options for C/M are listed in the order (left to right) you/we are most likely to use them/the feature. As in:
Levels (Yes) > Grids (Yes) > Columns (maybe) > Walls (maybe) Floors (maybe)
@ToanDN's terrifying trick will attempt give you what you're asking for, a warning any time a monitored element is changed and without all the copies of those elements in your model.
However, it won't warn you if a column type is changed or a different family/type is swapped. You will get a warning if a column is deleted. I assume it fails to recognize type changes because a single family monitoring multiple families is confusing the coordination review engine. Also reviewing warnings, you can't resolve them with any action (like delete) because it will alter the single monitor governor.
That wouldn't work for me. I'd need to know when column sizes are changing as well as it being moved to a different location. Grid monitoring would call attention to that situation too though. Fwiw, if you pursue it anyway, phases can be used to keep your monitor governor out of sight.
Also, it won't catch new elements, but C/M doesn't either. That's a distinct aspect of model coordination they haven't tackled. Dynamo could deal with that too. A quick count of columns in yours and theirs can flag a discrepancy in the count, prompting a search for new columns. Going deeper you could compare which column ID's are not listed in your last comparison (exported to .txt/csv).
Steve Stafford
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Thanks!
@Anonymous wrote:
Hi Steve,
Copy/Monitor works almost perfectly for grids and levels. One thing I don't like is that it won't inform you of new elements.
I often tell people that the tabs in the Options for C/M are listed in the order (left to right) you/we are most likely to use them/the feature. As in:
Levels (Yes) > Grids (Yes) > Columns (maybe) > Walls (maybe) Floors (maybe)
@ToanDN's terrifying trick will attempt give you what you're asking for, a warning any time a monitored element is changed and without all the copies of those elements in your model.
However, it won't warn you if a column type is changed or a different family/type is swapped. You will get a warning if a column is deleted. I assume it fails to recognize type changes because a single family monitoring multiple families is confusing the coordination review engine. Also reviewing warnings, you can't resolve them with any action (like delete) because it will alter the single monitor governor.
That wouldn't work for me. I'd need to know when column sizes are changing as well as it being moved to a different location. Grid monitoring would call attention to that situation too though. Fwiw, if you pursue it anyway, phases can be used to keep your monitor governor out of sight.
Also, it won't catch new elements, but C/M doesn't either. That's a distinct aspect of model coordination they haven't tackled. Dynamo could deal with that too. A quick count of columns in yours and theirs can flag a discrepancy in the count, prompting a search for new columns. Going deeper you could compare which column ID's are not listed in your last comparison (exported to .txt/csv).
Steve Stafford
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Revit's own Compare Models tool hasn't been updated since v2015 as far as I know. If it was then it would be useful to document the differences. You can also export to NWC and compare them using Navisworks. I seem to recall another 3rd party tool offering to provide model comparison features ... CTC BIM Project Suite (purchase) has it...
Steve Stafford
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Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.
Revit's own Compare Models tool hasn't been updated since v2015 as far as I know. If it was then it would be useful to document the differences. You can also export to NWC and compare them using Navisworks. I seem to recall another 3rd party tool offering to provide model comparison features ... CTC BIM Project Suite (purchase) has it...
Steve Stafford
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Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.
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