Monitor without copying - Not Working

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to monitor elements without copying them. It's not working at all, when I go to select elements, nothing in the structural linked file can be selected.

I"m following the instructions here:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/EN...

At step 5, nothing can be highlighted. I tried in a fresh with the link and nothing can be highlighted.... very disappointing. Can someone test and let me know if I'm doing something wrong?

I'm trying to monitor structural floors and columns.

Thanks

[barthbradley]

Did you PIN the link? 

[SteveKStafford]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I'm trying to monitor structural floors and columns.

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Just to be clear, does that mean you are trying to monitor between categories? In other words monitor the relationship between a floor and a column? If so then that isn't how it works. It monitors column and column (link) or floor and floor (link).

[barthbradley]

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sarsenault2CCSS wrote:

I'm trying to monitor structural floors and columns.

Thanks

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Righto @SteveKStafford! I missed this. You cannot monitor unlike pairs, @Anonymous.  

[Anonymous]

I have an empty project (for my test). I link and pin a structural model.

I can easily Copy/monitor, but I cannot monitor an individual element, any element actually.

I am trying to monitor individual floors, columns, etc.

I'm familiar with copy/monitor, but monitor alone seems broken. Have you tried it successfully?

[ToanDN]

You cannot monitor linked elements if the host is empty. They go by pairs. Read the page you posted above again.

[Anonymous]

@ToanDNAhhhhh no, you're right. That's such a weird concept then.

It's weird how they want to allow to monitor different elements, but not just "monitor" an individual element.

I think what we really want then is the compare version service of BIM 360 Teams.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

I've created an "idea" far what I need

"Monitoring without copying"

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/monitor-without-copy/idi-p/7624028

[barthbradley]

@Anonymous: But you can already monitor without copying. In fact, you even posted a link to an Autodesk Knowledge Network detailed description of the process to do it.  What is it that you can't do exactly -- or want to do differently?   

[Anonymous]

@barthbradleyI want to get a warning when a linked structural floors, columns and walls change. I don't want to have my "own copy" of these elements at all however.

Reading through the article again, it says you don't need to copy the element, but it expects a similar element in your model. I don't want a corresponding element, I just want warning when things change without having to manage a bunch of copies and then hide the originals.

[SteveKStafford]

Let's go back to the beginning: "Why does Monitor and Copy/Monitor exist?"

Revit was originally one product, primarily for architects but it had some structural features too. The new separate Revit Structure product was introduced in 2005. This increased the number of circumstances that different project files were used to do our design work.

The architect (A) and structural engineer (SE) both need grids in their models to keep things organized and make it easier to adjust/create documents according to their own needs.

Enter Copy/Monitor...

Assuming the architect starts a project and hires a structural engineer, the SE starts their project by linking the A model and then uses Copy/Monitor to both acquire and monitor their own copies of the A grids. That's Copy/Monitor. It makes it easy to create elements I don't have my own version of yet as well as establish a monitored relationship.

Now for Monitor only, assume the same as above except the SE decides to draw their own grids on top of the A grids, for example maybe they started by sketching out their concept before the A model was available. Using Monitor they select each A grid and then the corresponding SE grid. Now Revit is watching those grids, concerned about position and its name. If those change an alert will appear the next time the link is reloaded.

Copy/Monitor acts on single category relationships, not between categories. My column and their column can be Monitored (Select Link Option). Also my Column A and my Column B can be monitored (Use Current Project option).

It is not a watch this singular element tool, it is a watch/compare this element to another element (of the same category) either in a linked file (most common) or in the same file (pretty rare). The reason it works this way is that many of the elements that are meant to be monitored are required by more than one discipline. The A wants a grid and the SE wants their own grid to be able to adjust its extents or appearance according to their own documentation standards. These separate grids need to be coordinated...that's where Monitor enters the conversation. The Copy part is just a faster way to create my own copies of elements I need my own copy of...but must be kept in sync with the other discipline's copy.

I realize from your writing that you'd like it to work differently. Hopefully the above background information will help you understand what sort of practical problems it was intended to deal with.

[Anonymous]

Hi Steve,

It's an honor to be chatting with you. I've read your blog for many years for wisdom and solutions.

Copy/Monitor works almost perfectly for grids and levels. One thing I don't like is that it won't inform you of new elements.

However for floors, walls, ceilings, etc. We mostly use C/M just so that we can have nice joint. We want to join our columns to walls graphically. We want to do the same for structural floors and architectural ceilings. There' really no need for me to copy the structural floor, hide theirs and manage tat whole interaction if all I want is a nice graphical joint between both elements. Revit should simply improve joining between linked files or we can use good old dumb techniques and draw over it with filled regions.

I want the monitor part, jsut to get notification of changes, because lazy engineers won't take the time to list all the columns that moved. However, I don't need a copy of their columns in my model. The effort required to do that is also strenuous (put their columns on a workset and close it or hide them through the template, ask them and all other consultants to do the same thing for your model). The value for effort is extremely low, not very BIM like. Then once again, if they introduce a new column, you on't hear about it. All this effort is just for some graphics...

It feel like this was never tested on a real job, a half baked feature. I hope Autodesk tries using this on a real project, they could learn how to redesign this tool to be useful to architects.

I think the concept that works for grids and levels was exported to almost all other elements, without success. Just my thoughts, thanks for your insightful comment 🙂

[ToanDN]

@Anonymous

If you really want to do it, you need to create at least one dummy element in the host to monitor elements of the same category from the link.  Dummy elements can be placed in a OFF workset/ different Phase/ remote location, or any other means so that they don't interfere with your working model.  Create a dedicated monitoring view to show the dummy elements and the link, run the Monitor command and you can use one element to monitor multiple link elements.

[Anonymous]

That sounds terrifying, lol. I'll do that if I can't convince my boss to use BIM 360 Teams, which has an excellent model compare feature.

Thanks for the clever hack!

[SteveKStafford]

Thanks!

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hi Steve,

Copy/Monitor works almost perfectly for grids and levels. One thing I don't like is that it won't inform you of new elements.

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I often tell people that the tabs in the Options for C/M are listed in the order (left to right) you/we are most likely to use them/the feature. As in:

Levels (Yes) > Grids (Yes) > Columns (maybe) > Walls (maybe) Floors (maybe)

@ToanDN's terrifying trick will attempt give you what you're asking for, a warning any time a monitored element is changed and without all the copies of those elements in your model.

However, it won't warn you if a column type is changed or a different family/type is swapped. You will get a warning if a column is deleted. I assume it fails to recognize type changes because a single family monitoring multiple families is confusing the coordination review engine. Also reviewing warnings, you can't resolve them with any action (like delete) because it will alter the single monitor governor.

That wouldn't work for me. I'd need to know when column sizes are changing as well as it being moved to a different location. Grid monitoring would call attention to that situation too though. Fwiw, if you pursue it anyway, phases can be used to keep your monitor governor out of sight.

Also, it won't catch new elements, but C/M doesn't either. That's a distinct aspect of model coordination they haven't tackled. Dynamo could deal with that too. A quick count of columns in yours and theirs can flag a discrepancy in the count, prompting a search for new columns. Going deeper you could compare which column ID's are not listed in your last comparison (exported to .txt/csv).

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the clarification. I'm praying my boss allows me to buy BIM 360 Teams, since it has a great version compare capability that will do exactly what we need.

This workaround seems like a complicate headache that only partly solves out problem, while introducing new exotic problems.

[zakazai]

Hi

It will be great if we get a direct option to check such changes in the project.

I am doing a workaround to escape questions, maybe it is weird, but here is what I do.

For BIM Team in our firm, we have to update and illustrate changes to the directors. I face two types of changes that I have to illustrate to our Project director.

1: New elements added to the project: example: A new wall or column.

My solution: I made a shared parameter; then every 3 days, I check the model and add a value for this parameter, I create a filter based on this parameter with transparency. so if anyone adds new things, I can easily find new items, BCS I added a very sharp color for those items which are not under the value of this shared parameter. 

2: Something (existing elements)  displaced:  Wall, Columns, floors etc.

My solution: I make a copy of the project (Detached from central) for checking only, Then I link the project to this check copy. and I monitor all possible elements.

when I open as part of checking new changes, I get the report, then we discuss with the team, and make necessary screenshots for presentation. 

If you find another way, Please Post here.

Thank you for your time

[SteveKStafford]

Revit's own Compare Models tool hasn't been updated since v2015 as far as I know. If it was then it would be useful to document the differences. You can also export to NWC and compare them using Navisworks. I seem to recall another 3rd party tool offering to provide model comparison features ... CTC BIM Project Suite (purchase) has it...

[Anonymous]

@zakazaiThis perfectly illustrates how the copy/monitor workflow has become a nightmare rather than the useful tool it was set out to be.

@SteveKStaffordBIM 360 Docs and BIM 360 Teams have an amazing web based tool to compare model versions in a comprehensive, useful and easy manner.