node editor, nodes keep rearranging

[reniferziolo]

Hello everyone,

Whenever I connect nodes to chosen "channels" they jump around the node editor viewport, making me loose track of my progress. It's really confusing. I don't know how to fix this. Any help appreciated!

[NandoStille]

The Node Editor is far from being an elegant tool. Don't expect to much.

But see here: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/maya-forum/node-editor-pin-all-nodes-by-default/m-p/7850063

[sean.heasley]

Hi @reniferziolo

@NandoStille made a good point and using pin settings should help.

That said, I haven't seen much of the issue you're describing before.

When you get a chance, can you please post a video of what's happening on your machine so I can get a better idea of the issue?

If you need a video capturing program, Screencast is a great option that we use here at Autodesk

Please let me know if anything changes!

[reniferziolo]

Hello. 

Thank you for your suggestions. Unfortunately pinning by default does ..nothing.  I didn't have a chance to  record it by here are snaps of the default arrangement and the one that follows.  It can be really confusing with with more dense "networks". Ok so  here goes.defaultresult

[sean.heasley]

Hi @reniferziolo

I'm a bit confused by this.

Do you make any changes to the node editor when this happens or do you just close it when its like the Default and then re open it and it looks like the result in the second screenshot?

[reniferziolo]

Hi,

it happens the moment I plug the node in and the unit convertion node is being created.

kind regards

[sean.heasley · Accepted solution]

Hi @reniferziolo

Ohh ok I get what you're talking about.

I've seen this as well and I believe it is by design. The reason it is moved a bit away from the nodes is that you can clearly see something has been added in between the two nodes, in this case the Unit Conversion node.

I'm a bit surprised it's causing an issue for you since I've only had it move a few units so it's relatively easy to move back into place but that said, I also keep my nodes separated with a lot of space in between groups so its a bit easier to not what is where etc.

[reniferziolo]

It was very confusing with more dense networks. I just recreated the issue.
Thanks for you time.

[Martin_L_A]

No offense, but if it is by design, it is a very poor design.
In the example given by reniferziolo, it is only moving a few units away (which is already extremely frustrating and confusing).

But in most of the cases I personnally encounter, it moves hundreds, if not thousands of units away (far away from any other nodes of the graph), which is, combined with another of the node editor's issue (the fact that the whole graph jumps when you try to move nodes that are on the edges of your graph), extremely annoying and frustrating.

[reniferziolo]

I agree. As I said it's much worse with denser networks.It's a pity because I find node editor to be easer for some tasks than writing expressions. Maybe something worth looking into for future builds?

[sean.heasley]

Hi @reniferziolo

It is worth looking into of course and I actually already passed this along to the developers as a note so they have it on their radar.

It'd be helpful it this was a bit easier to reproduce because like I mentioned previously, I only see the nodes move a handful of units and it's never thrown off my workflow.

That said, if a node is moving extremely far away like @NandoStille mentioned then this is a much more serious issue that needs to be addressed.

If at all possible, could you post repro steps and/or a video of this happening on your machine so I can pass it along to the dev report?

If you need a video capturing program, Screencast is a great option that we use here at Autodesk

[Martin_L_A]

This is also annoying by default, even when it's just a few units away. For example, I often have dozens of nodes displayed, that I spend time rearranging, and then need to connect all of them to another series of nodes.

2 solutions then, either we connect them manually one by one, rearranging them one after the other (and rearranging, when you have a few dozen nodes, will take more time than connecting the nodes themselves) losing a massive amount of time for just an annoying feature; or you can use a line of code to connect all of them, and you get your whole graph messed up at once. And then have to rearrange it, losing more time than it took you to connect them.
And the down side is that, since the update, I coulnd't even find a way to get my rigging nodes displayed in the hyperShade like they used to (because at least, the hyperShade is not messing my work).
In my opinion, nodes shouldn't move after their creation, unless explicitly told so (by using the rearrange button, or being moved by the user).

[NandoStille]

---

@Martin_L_A wrote:

In my opinion, nodes shouldn't move after their creation, unless explicitly told so (by using the rearrange button, or being moved by the user).

---

I completely agree with everything you wrote and I wish more rigging and shading artists would speak up here. There are (and have been before) other, proper "node editors" out there - ahead of Maya's attempt to implement one (at a time when the Hypergraph was deprecated long ago). Editors which set standards and still do and which are a pure delight to work with. Several concepts of the Maya NodeEditor are just producing raised eyebrows against this background.

A few examples: a "feature" like pinning nodes is really just a fix for bad interface design. The "Add on Create" and "Additive Graphing" options produce confusing outcomes in certain situations - which is also caused by the fact, that the NE and the HS are sharing(!) these options, which I never understood.

In the end such well-meant "features" are just producing redundant clicks - unfortunately something Maya is really good at - which wouldn't be necessary if the tool was done right.

Last but not least, the NE is bugged and suffers inconsistent menus, like the "Display" section in the RMB marking menu. But no wonder if one considers the flashy way how the HS UI rebuilds itself every time one opens the editor. Seriously? Again, smells like bad ui design, don't you think?

I am sure alot is already logged and so as a good and patient and obedient - and unfortunately still in a certain way bound-to Maya artist - I just hope it get's better ... somewhen ... in the future ... near future.

[johnkeates2865]

I am getting this odd 'nodes jumping around' behavior in Maya 2018 sp4 and it is a handicap.

I really would like to turn off the re-arrangement of nodes as it is never useful and makes everything take much longer to do. It is a bad idea, poorly implemented.

[johnkeates2865]

To add: I tried 'pin all nodes by defualt' but still the view of the node editor keeps skipping about. It is infuriating (I don't go on these boards for fun). I can move the view perfectly well myself and some hastily assembled algorithm cant!

[stuff]

Node editor is the reason why I still rig with Maya 2015!
It started getting bad with 2016 where nodes duplicated outside the focused on area, then 2017 where attributes started disappearing after connecting them once for some reason?? and in 2018 nothing was fixed.

The fact that Autodesk designed it like this shows that they lack understanding of how people work. Sure it's all fancy and flashy for the keynotes to show how you can open nodes and show everyone ALL of the attributes... Wow! what an achievement. But I dare you to rig a foot roll for a character using the node editor without going insane with the nodes jumping around, rearranging undesirably and attributes disappearing after one connection!

Maya 2015 is where it was at.

[johnkeates2865]

Can this issue be 'unsolved' and worked on please? Before someone using the node editor goes postal?

Best to have a mode where the camera and nodes don't re-arrange themselves until someone has worked out how to make that work in a way which isn't annoying.

[stuff]

At the very Very least, just make a switch to turn rearrangement and disappearing attributes OFF!... Is that so hard, Autodesk?

[paulluttrellTA]

Yeah this is ridiculous. I'm a technical artist and it sets me back so much every time Maya scatters my carefully created nodes all over the place

[Martin_L_A]

I believe that is indeed a very common feeling within the video games/vfx industry and among Maya users in general, but that thread (and so many others) have been closed for so long because this "is by design" that now I tend to think that Autodesk believes its design is more important than its users and their feedback.

This is probably why there is an increasing number of people and studios switching over from Autodesk products to blender / SideFX / Foundry  products. Fortunately for us there are at least some other software companies that understand that the users are more important than their products.