unresponsive adaptive parts

[pquenzi]

I use Inventor 2023 but the problem I am having goes back to the 2018 version. When I route a hydraulic hose in an assembly the hose part number is adaptive and I can drive various constraints in the assembly and the hose will follow along as expected. However, I can make the exact same assembly with the same constraints and route another hose and although it says it is adaptive I cannot drive the assembly constraints any longer. 

I do the hose routing the "old school" way using work axes, work planes and work points. It seems the problem is always related to the various work axes. If I suppress those constraints the assembly can be moved but the hose obviously does not go along with it. Sometimes if I leave the assembly and come back to it later, it will work, but not all the time. It is very frustrating and I have spent countless hours trying to figure it out to no avail.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you.

[susanamendegon]

It´s hard to give solution without see the procedure employed

[pquenzi]

I can attach a compressed file of the pack and go for the assembly. It is 25Mb. Is that okay?

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! Yes, please attach the files in zip (up to 75MB) here. I would also like to understand the behavior better.

Many thanks!

[pquenzi]

The main assembly is "40333a trial plumbing 5"

Try to drive or change the following constraints:

40241w>left wing angle

42396-1>driveme

42396-2>driveme1

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! Many thanks for sharing the files! I took a quick look. It seems that Mate:5 is limiting DOF unnecessarily. And, it is conflicting to Mate:4. Could you take a look?

Thanks again!

[pquenzi]

Johnson,

Thanks for looking at it.

I don't see a Mate:4, but it was probably what I renamed "driveme". At any rate, I am still not on the same page as you. I suppressed Mate:5 and the "left wing angle" worked, but when I drove "driveme" the hose did not follow because Mate:5 was suppressed.

I attached a png file of a previous model I did which has more parts and two hoses and is constrained in exactly the same way and it works perfectly. I will send that model to you Monday.

I will also think about it over the weekend. Happy Easter.

[bradeneuropeArthur]

Can you show a screenshot of the inventor browser where I can see that the part (hose) is adaptive?

[pquenzi]

Johnson,

After thinking about this some over the weekend I may have (at least partially) figured out what is going on. When I created the hose, I constrained the xy plane of the 2d sketch to a face of the slider block and the z axis to the center of a hole in the slider block. Then when I started the 3d sketch I constrained it to a new user work plane off the face of the slider block and a new user work axis off the slider block hole. As a result, the hose ended up with two coplaner work planes (hose xy plane and user work plane made from face of slider block) and two coaxial work axes (hose z axis and the work axis made from the slider block hole). I'm guessing that these coplaner and colinear planes and axes did not cause problems in some cases but, for reasons unknown to me, did cause problems in others. As a test, I deleted the hose in the assembly I sent you and made another hose, but this time constrained the 3d sketch to the xy plane of the hose and the z axis of the hose so there were no dual panes or axes and that hose worked fine.

I hope that was the problem. I'll find out I guess. What do you think?

By the way, do many Inventor users use this method to route hoses and cables. It seems rather out of date, but that is how I learned and other than this problem it has worked well for me.

Thanks for your help.

[pquenzi]

Well, that was not it. I am out of ideas.

[pquenzi]

Johnson,

This just keeps getting worse. Would you please take a look at this simple model with one adaptive hose. Try driving constraint "driveme1" in 42396. I have tried everything I can think of to make this work with no success.

[A.Acheson]

Any chance of a couple of screen shots? And maybe the browser showing  the routes and run hierarchy? Unfortunately your using a newer version so I cannot see what is happening. I have seen issues updating runs where the connection simply fails to up date. Only editing the connection allows the part to detect its former relationship and revert back to its required location. I wonder is that the issue? 

[pquenzi]

Here are a couple of screen shots.

I have turned the visibility off on all unneeded parts.

This seems so crazy. I can do a hose run that is quite complicated and everything works perfectly, but once I get the "cannot solve at (or near) this point..." everything goes down hill and no matter what I do I cannot get things to work again other than deleting the offending part or suppressing the offending constraint even though I see no problem with any of the constraints.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! Many thanks for sharing the files! I think this has something to do with adaptive relationship. Turning on adaptive flag does not mean it will deform or move adaptively. There has to be a constraint or projected geometry to make it happen.

For example, in 42410:1, how were Work Plane6 and Work Plane7 created?

Thanks again!

[A.Acheson]

Thanks for sending on the images. I was thinking these parts were tube and pipe related but I see they are 3d sketches. In the words of dragons den I'm out. It will likely need the model to investigate further and your in good hands with Johnson. Best of luck.

[pquenzi]

Here are some more screens shots showing how I made the 3d sketch and what it is adaptive to. The assembly has only two parts plus the hose. The hose end (06g-06fforx) is grounded. The block (42396) is constrained to the assembly work planes so it can translate in the x, y and z directions and rotate about an edge parallel to the z axis, Work axis 2 and work plane 4 are adaptive to the block so I assume would move with it. Work planes 5 and 6 and work points 3 and 4 were made from the adaptive work axis 2 and work plane 4. After doing the sweep and trying to translate the block in the x or y direction or rotate it I get the "cannot solve..." message. When I try to drive the block "mate 3" in the z direction I get what is shown in "hose adaptive test 1b".

I have done this same procedure dozens of times in the past and it has worked.

Phil

[pquenzi]

After watching a Youtube video I'm starting to get the idea of how to make the 3d line adaptive. 

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! I took a closer look at the assembly again. I think it may have something to do with interdependency between the adaptive work features. It looks like some work features are based on the driver's body geometry in  but some work features are based on the driver's origin geometry. Some work features are based on the combination of the two.

The dependency is quite complicated.

I recreated the 3D path using just a few adaptive workpoints (picking work points from the driver parts). The adaptive is working. Please take a look at the attached file. Try moving the block via Free Move command. You will see the 3D path updates accordingly.

Many thanks!

[pquenzi]

Johnson,

Thank you. I will look at that, but I think I have it figured out now. First off, I did not realize I had to make 2d sketches and project adaptive geometry in each sketch and then tie the 3d sketch to those projected features (usually centers of projected circles in this case) in order for the 3d sketch to act adaptively. Secondly, when I projected the geometry in the 2d sketches my application options were somehow set so they were not adaptive. I had to hold down the control key while projecting the geometry to make them adaptive. Once I did those two things it worked.

What is the setting in the application options>sketch that controls whether projected 2d geometry is by default adaptive or not? Or is it possibly application options>assembly>features are initially adaptive?

Thanks again for all you help.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! The option to enable Adaptive projection is in Tools -> App Options -> Assembly -> Cross part geometry projection -> check both boxes.

You may want to take a look at the simple example I uploaded. The adaptive relationship does not have to be that convoluted.

Many thanks!