Derived part, cant change line types from sketches I pulled into the new part!

[Paul.Devitt]

Just updated to Inventor 2022. When we used 2019 if we created a sketch and revolved it into a part, we could also include on the model sketch some construction lines to be used later on with the derived parts. When we used to do this in 2019 I was able to create the derived part and change any of the lines on the sketch to different line types and therefore revolve the new derived part according to the line type changes. Now I can't do that, if I create a derived part and open one of the sketches I pulled in, if I click on any of the lines in the sketch, the options to change the lines to a different line type (construction line into a solid line or a solid line into a construction line etc. etc.) is greyed out and not possible to use to change line types. Is this something that was changed for the 2022 version or is there maybe something like a little check box somewhere that I need to change to allow me to change the line types like I used to?

Thanks.

[johnsonshiue · Accepted solution]

Hi Paul,

This is an intended change in 2022. In 2021 and earlier, the derive line type is treated like appearance. It inherits the source line type on creation but it can be changed later. This behavior actually violates Derive paradigm, which means the source objects always drive derived objects. The sketch line type is more than appearance. It can dictate the profile compute. Based on the customer feedback we got from Inventor Feedback Community and other customer engagement activities, we decide to change it in 2022. For files created earlier, the old behaviors will persist. But, for newly created derived feature in 2022, the new behavior will persist.

If you want to alter the line type, you will need to project the derive sketch to another sketch.

Many thanks!

[Paul.Devitt]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. We will have to change how WE do some things here where I work. Does it make sense, yes, does it work for our way of doing things, no LOL, but we will make it work now that we know there isnt a way to revert back to the old way of using the software.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Paul,

I am sorry that the change caught you by surprise. This change had been discussed for quite some time. We did not think there was a feasible solution before. After several rounds of discussion, it was decided that the 2022 behavior would be the best in terms of consistency.

Any change can impact users like this case. You did not do anything wrong, but you were impacted as a result. We did think about allowing the legacy behaviors to persist (with an option). But, the issue here is that it can make the behavioral models very complicated and hard to understand, particularly when you have multiple levels of derive.

Many thanks!

[bradeneuropeArthur]

Possibly we need to create our own add-in for it!

Or is that not supported @johnsonshiue 

[iDezin]

This seems preposterous! Using this logic, would it not also violate the so-called "derive paradigm" to change the; color, material or sheet-metal-style, of a derived part?  Any plans of changing this as well? 

Autodesk has, in 1 release, screwed over a whole lot of companies by severely altering established workflows...

[Paul.Devitt]

I agree with you 100%, I have heard more and more people are not liking this change, perhaps it can be something that is setup with the option to stay with the original method or use the new method by simply checking a box in the setup part of the software.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! We are evaluating this issue. Indeed, we got negative comments on this change. It is possible we may revert back to the legacy behavior (allowing linetype change) for the time being. But, the change will not be available in the coming 2022.1 update unfortunately. Probably a double-dot update after that.

In terms of how to properly support the desirable workflows for both (locking line type change and allowing line type change), we don't have a good solution yet.

Many thanks!

[bradeneuropeArthur]

@johnsonshiue 

Thanks for taking this serious.

Only because I am curious, how and where did you get those negative comments to this change from?

Are there other ways to walk to have influence on these kind of things.

Could you please explain that for us?

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Arthur,

The discussion has been fairly active on Inventor Feedback forum, where the original request started. We also got a few defects reported by different customers complaining about the new behavior.

Many thanks!

[benny_wellekens]

If you share the sketch in the base part. You can import it in the derived part and change de linetype.

Kind regards,

[jakob.ringe]

Where I work we have also been affected by this change. It is very frustrating and besides being double work, I don't believe in the solution of drawing projected lines on top of the derived sketch - I have seen to many times that Inventor looses references. Please change this feature back as soon as possible!

[johnsonshiue]

Hi Jakob,

Many thanks for the feedback! We are indeed aware of the negative impact to some of the users due to this change. The change was to allow more consistent Derive modeling workflows. However, the legacy behaviors have also been widely adopted. We are investigating a better approach. In the meantime, the change will be reverted in 2022.2 (logged as INVGEN-54595), coming in November. A testable build will be available on Inventor Feedback Community before then.

I am very sorry for the trouble it has caused.

Thanks again!

[DerUhrmacher]

Hi,

I installed the  2022.2 but the linetypes still can't be changed!
When does it work again. We have many troubles this way.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! I am sorry I am confused. The behavior is indeed reverted on 2022.2. It works for me. Please share an example that exhibits a different behavior.

Many thanks!

[DerUhrmacher]

At first attempt it didn't work, but now it works. 
It's all ok now.

[holgerb-mardmoeller]

@johnsonshiue:
We have a customer who is upgrading Inventor from 2019.6 to 2023.2 in combination with Vault Professional.
We run in the same issues like Paul.Devitt has described with Inventor 2022 or 2022.1.
But we are using Inventor 2023.2 ! We didn't migrate the files, this is not nessary because the behaviour is only in the new files which are copied from 2019.6 files.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! The behavior on 2023 can be controlled by an option in the App Options (Tools -> App Options -> Part -> "Link sketch formatting from the source component"). The same option also exists in the Derive feature dialog.

If it is not working for you, please share an example that exhibits the behavior.

Many thanks!

[holgerb-mardmoeller]

Thanks for your reply.

Even with this options it is not possible to switch the line types separately in a sketch of a derived part.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! When the option is off, you should be allowed to change the derive line type. If it is not working, I will need to see an example. Please share the files in zip here or send it to me directly johnson.shiue@autodesk.com. I would like to understand the defective behavior better.

Many thanks!