PLEASE(!) fix the orbit pivot point behavior sooner rather than later

[kb9ydn]

In Solidworks I tend to use the orbit and zoom features a lot while modelling, especially with larger models.  With Fusion though the orbit behavior is really quite bad sometimes because the pivot point is nowhere near what you are looking at on the screen.  So when you try to orbit you get mostly just a pan.  And for some reason the pivot location is never consistent which means you never know exactly what will happen when you try to orbit.  This is a major annoyance and really slows you down with larger models.

Furthermore, setting the pivot point with the <shift>+MMB double click is a bad solution for 3 reasons:

1) If you double click too fast you get a zoom to model

2) since you have to double click slower it's awkward and slower (obviously)

3) it doesn't work at all with the Solidworks orbit/pan/zoom setup because <shift>+MMB is for zoom

How it *should* work is this:

If the entire model is visible on the screen the orbit pivot point should always be at the geometric center of the model.  If you are zoomed in such that the entire model is not visible, the pivot point should be set to the point on the surface of the model directly under the mouse cursor when the MMB is pressed.  This method is fast, predictable, and is compatible with all of the shortcut key setups.  There is also no chance you will accidentally get another command instead.

I've seen changes to the orbit behavior brought up a number of times in the idea station (and I've voted for some of them) but they never seem to go anywhere.  Maybe people just don't think of it as a significant issue, but seeing how orbit/pan/zoom is fundamental to the use of Fusion in general, I'm somewhat baffled that more people don't complain about this.

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[Phil.E]

You have brought up several things here. 

 Allow pivot to be set when running Solidworks orbit mode: There is currently a bug logged against Pivot Point to allow all alternate orbit modes to set pivot.

[FUS-16010]

Trackpad users also cannot set pivot, AFAIK.

Just to be clear: The pivot is not random. Unless you change it, it remains at the origin. 

Also, to set the pivot, you do not need to double click anything. The recipe is "Shift + MMB click". If you do this on an interesting object, such as a vertex, the pivot will snap to it. 

Thanks for voting on Idea Station ideas. You are probably correct, it may be that very few people use the alternate orbit modes and also care about setting pivot. Perhaps this will spawn some interest.

Thanks,

[kb9ydn]

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@Phil.E wrote:

You have brought up several things here. 

 Allow pivot to be set when running Solidworks orbit mode: There is currently a bug logged against Pivot Point to allow all alternate orbit modes to set pivot.

[FUS-16010]

Trackpad users also cannot set pivot, AFAIK.

Ok, I was thinking that this might have been entered as a bug but I couldn't remember. Any idea when it might be fixed?

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@Phil.E wrote:

Just to be clear: The pivot is not random. Unless you change it, it remains at the origin. 

What origin? I just now fired up Fusion and opened a random model. It is definitely not pivoting around the top level origin or any of the component origins. It seems to be using a point somehow related to the center of the screen. When I zoom in on something the pivot point becomes whatever is in the middle of the screen. This is *ok* until you have a model with a lot of depth (front to back as you are looking into the screen). When you do this it sets the pivot point to somewhere in the middle of the model (from front to back). The problem with this is that if you're zoomed in on the front of the model, orbiting just makes what you're looking at fly off the screen because the pivot point is very far away.

This is hard to describe so I think I'll have to make a video. But I can tell you for sure the pivot point is definitely moving around in relation to the model without me setting it.

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@Phil.E wrote:

Also, to set the pivot, you do not need to double click anything. The recipe is "Shift + MMB click". If you do this on an interesting object, such as a vertex, the pivot will snap to it. 

Ok, you're right. Technically to *set* the pivot point you hold , press MMB, release MMB. But then to actually orbit you have to press the MMB again while still holding shift. This is where you can accidentally do a zoom to fit if the second click is too close to the first. The other annoying thing about this is that the same pivot point is now retained every time you orbit, unless you set it again, which means another MMB click and release. This is awkward and slows you down when you're going around looking at different parts of a model. And the more you have to zoom in on certain parts of a model, the more annoying this behavior is.

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@Phil.E wrote:

Thanks for voting on Idea Station ideas. You are probably correct, it may be that very few people use the alternate orbit modes and also care about setting pivot. Perhaps this will spawn some interest.

I am curious how other people navigate their models. Maybe it's a Solidworks thing but I'm constantly moving the model around with zoom/pan/rotate as I'm working. And I've watched other Solidworks guys do the same thing.  Is it just us?

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[Phil.E]

The bug is not currently on anyone's plate to fix.

You are correct, I misspoke. Not "origin" but rather center of view.

I'm not arguing against your points, they are valid and make sense. I'm simply trying to give you the best Fusion experience currently possible. So, the best thing you are going to get right now is via Shift + MMB click to set pivot.

Thanks,

[rbtyod]

I would also very much like to see the orbit pivot point fixed.

I'd also like to see a Blender orbit mode added - but just being able to set the pivot point alone would be nice.

...Bob

[kb9ydn]

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@rbtyod wrote:
I would also very much like to see the orbit pivot point fixed.

I'd also like to see a Blender orbit mode added - but just being able to set the pivot point alone would be nice.

...Bob

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Yeah, this is one of my biggest gripes with Fusion right now.  It seems like such a minor thing but for me it's like having one of my thumbs is cut off.  I can survive without it but it affects almost everything I do.

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[Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure Fusion is going to take over.  I am falling in love with it.  I love solid works but you have so much to offer.  But this orbit thing is killing me.  Here is a few videos I have made to show how it is frustrating. 

Solidworks mode, PAN ZOOM TILT ORBIT NOT REALLY LIKE SOLIDWORKS

I tried to get the video freature to work, but the URL from my screencast upload keeps getting an error.

Sorry about the loud fan noise.  I have since bought a microphone and my screen casts are much better.

[neljoshua]

I agree; the orbit behavior in Fusion seems dodgy.

It would be amazing if Fusion could tell what surface/vertex/component is in the center of the window and use that as a point of reference without having to click to select it.  Personally, I rarely want an orbit point that is not visible in the current view.

[TrippyLighting]

I have worked with CAD in general for 25 years, with Solid Works for 12 years, Blender for 10 and Geomagic Design for 4-5 years. I've worked in a number other 3D apps as well.

Having more options to modify the orbit behavior to ones liking will certainly be apprecaited, however, I cannot help to notice that some suggestions cearly come from a lack of seat time. I definitely don't find the behavior in Fusion "dogdy". I have even goten used to wothk with Blender asnd Fusion 360 ate the same time (T-Spline and Subdiv Modleing) despite the fact that the pan/orbit moes are exaclty the opposite. 

[donsmac]

Use the orbit tool to set the pivot point. Screencast.

[kb9ydn]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I'm pretty sure Fusion is going to take over.  I am falling in love with it.  I love solid works but you have so much to offer.  But this orbit thing is killing me.  Here is a few videos I have made to show how it is frustrating. 

Solidworks mode, PAN ZOOM TILT ORBIT NOT REALLY LIKE SOLIDWORKS

I tried to get the video freature to work, but the URL from my screencast upload keeps getting an error.

Sorry about the loud fan noise.  I have since bought a microphone and my screen casts are much better.

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Yeah, this is still bothering me to no end as well.  Working close up on parts of a large model is where it really gets bad.  If you haven't ever used the rotate functionality in Solidworks, I don't think you can truly understand just how much worse it is in Fusion.  Rotating in Solidworks is so much faster and more intuitve.  If setting the pivot point actually worked while using the SWX key setup it might be tolerable.

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[Phil.E]

Trippy,

I think for some people it's more important than others. I appreciate your point of view however, just because adapting to a tool is far easier than forcing the tool to adapt to you. What are Fusion users thinking that have never used a CAD program before? I'd like to hear from them as well.

It's like I tell my Inventor students when I'm teaching at night, they all are learning SWX and ACAD and Inventor at the same time: "If you use the scroll wheel to zoom, and it gets smaller instead of bigger, scroll the other direction". I've never heard complaints about orbit modes from them. They just learn the tools and don't even wonder about it. It just "is".

This being said, we are still working on this and I've made sure the new comments here are all visible to the design and dev team. You all have a valid POV and we appreciate all the feedback!

Thanks,

[kb9ydn]

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@donsmac wrote:

Use the orbit tool to set the pivot point. Screencast.

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Interesting.  This is still clunky because you have to mouse over to click the button and then mouse back to where you want to set the point, but it does work even with SWX key setup.  So it's definitely an improvement.  Thanks for pointing this out!

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[TrippyLighting]

Actually, the most universal tool I've come across that makes this a total non-topic across all CAD apps that I know is a 3D Connexion space mouse/navigator/space pilot.

It's a one time investment and for most users, once you have worked with it you'll miss it if you don't have it.

Except in Blender where I find it useless 😉

[kb9ydn]

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@TrippyLighting wrote:

Actually, the most universal tool I've come across that makes this a total non-topic across all CAD apps that I know is a 3D Connexion space mouse/navigator/space pilot.

It's a one time investment and for most users, once you have worked with it you'll miss it if you don't have it.

Except in Blender where I find it useless 😉

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It's interesting you point this out, because I've considered getting one (unfortunately I would have to get two so that I have one at work and at home).  I really wish I knew someone that had one I could try out.  Or even find a store that has one (not holding my breath).  Which one do you have; the small one or the bigger one with all the buttons and the display?

I'm also still trying to find a trackball that's as good as the discontinued cordless optical trackman from Logitech.  It's the only device I can use for long periods of time that doesn't make my wrist/hand sore.  But that's another story.

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[Phil.E]

@kb9ydnDo you mean the Logitech M570 is discontinued? Oh man.... I've got two for a reason.

[TrippyLighting]

I bought a usb connected 3D Space Navigator ($99) years ago but have been thinking about replacing it with  the next bigger model the Space Mouse Pro.

The Space Navigator hsa only two buttons and those are relatively small. 

The modeI hade before was a bigger one I bought through ebay because just as you I had no idea what to expect. It was a model more similar to the space mouse and it had more and bigger configurable buttons, which I liked. 

Edit: I really hate my typing skills and something I've been thinking about is a set of new, shiny cybernetic hands that help me typing correct forum posts with lighting speed. Unfortunately those have not been invented yet 😉

[kb9ydn]

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@Phil.E wrote:

@kb9ydnDo you mean the Logitech M570 is discontinued? Oh man.... I've got two for a reason.

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Not that one, it's the T-RB22.

http://support.logitech.com/en_us/product/cordless-trackman-optical

My current one should be good for at least a couple years yet, but they have a tendency to wear out the little ball glides.

I have long fingers so if I get a mouse that's big enough it takes too much space to move around.

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[Anonymous]

Please, stay on track guys.  I would like content to be localized around the Orbit feature.  Just a little off topic.  Yes you have very valid points 3d connexionx are awesome.  I haven't personally used a track ball.  Maybe start another topic on those.  (said in the nicest internet voice I could use. 

Thank you.

[TrippyLighting]

I offered another alterntive for the OP that avoids this being a topic altogether. As such I find it highly relevant and not off track.