Learning move, import, cut, orientation and positioning with snap.... how to

Fonzis · ‎06-02-2016

Good day
I am an Acad hobby user looking to become perfect continuity on lofted surfaces created from spline constructions, my preferred creation method.
The forms are organic combined with mechanical parts.

I have give it a try in Inventor but Fusion definitively convinced me better. Less complicated and the orientation between planes is more userfriendly as in inventor for me.

In Acad i use to construct things taking orientation direct from the splines that i form related to the positioning that i do in the 3 d environement. Orientating i do by typing or activating the snap commands that i need, in free orbit cam.
At the moment i am learning and starting take confidence with fusion.

I have try to import as igs step and sat, it seams to not import 2d at all.
I am here to ask for 2 things, first of all i am tryng to import splines from acad.dwg/step/igs to prevent that i must construct all again in fusion.
The first question is, what filetype have i to import in fusion to have also the splines if it is possible? (I need them to reconstruct it by using T splines). Or what method do you suggest if i already have the lofted surfaces from acad.
I was thinking to loft it in acad even if i not have perfect continuity, cut the surfaces following the splines, after cut it take the edges to reconstruct them with same shape and intersection points.
My other question is, how to import sketches or creations made as 2d in acad (mechanical) to use them as reference in the sketch that i need to position at his place and need to be in relation to the loft guides that i wanna create?

First pic is an older grip, stitched to become it solid.

The other one is the actual one i am making, taller, smaller, no socket and adapted to another trigger mechanism.

Any kind of suggestions are welcome.

PS: i am looking for a good snap and move tutorial in 2d and 3d environement, if anyone can link me to a good one that allows me to understand how move and position better like i can do easy in acad i would be happy. Thank you in advance.

Phil.E · ‎07-15-2016

Okay, I'll try to help with advice. I want Mike to continue providing technical support for you. I'll follow along and ensure any bugs get logged and investigated. But I am not the primary person to be helping you now, Mike Grau should continue in that role.

I need to understand your workflow so I have questions. I want you to try some things so I have advice.

When you say you have corrupt files, are you saying that you saved the file in the cloud and then later could not open it? Did you try to open an older version from your cloud files? Each save is an entire copy of your design, so it's nearly impossible to corrupt all versions. If you save regularly, there should be a version history in the cloud, just in case the recovery file fails.

But after a crash the recovery file should be good, so if that fails, you need to let us know and give us the information that will help us fix Fusion. When you don't tell us anything, we have no way to make Fusion better for you (and all other customers).

Advice:

Save versions often.
Turn off all graphics effects using the switch in Graphics Diagnostic under the ?Help menu (upper right corner of app).
Clear your user cache, same menu.
Collect and post your Diagnostic Log files so we can have a look. (tool is on ?Help menu)
If all else fails, try a clean re-install. Be sure to use all the instructions for it found here (scroll down the page to find it).
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/fusion-360-readme/td-p/4311780
Please send us more information, such as CER and corrupt files.

My goal is to get you productive and investigate quality problems in Fusion. Thanks for your help.

Best regards,

Phil Eichmiller
Software Engineer
Quality Assurance
Autodesk, Inc.

TrippyLighting · ‎07-15-2016

First of all, this is quite an impressive model! I cannot fathom how you designed this with splines in AutoCAD.

Your approach with lofting is not a bad idea, but i think in Fusion 360 that's an area still under quite a bit of development and that also need a little more work to be able to do the surfacing this would require.

For now that leaves us with T-Splines. If you created a .stl from your original file the best way to get a surface true to your original form is to re-topologize that .stl file in another application and then bring the result back into Fusion. There are two applications the come to mind. Blender with the RetopoFlow plugin, or Topogun. The latter being an application dedicated to re-rtopologizin meshes.

While that is another skill you'd need to learn it would be very valuable one to pick up.

Once you have re-topologized your mesh you can export it into a .obj, import it into Fusion 360 and there convert it into a T-Spline. Looking at the screenshots in your posts above my guesstimate would be the a properly re-topologized mesh has at least factor 10 fewer polygons and possibly adheres better to your original geometry and is much easier to edit and without performance penalty.

Here is a link to a thread started by a very experienced user discussing "What is really possible with T-Splines..."

Fonzis · ‎07-16-2016

@Phil.E

Thank you very much, this is good, Mike has surely also to do and is not a bad idea if you also keep an eye on this case.

yes i save by hand with new name because he just saves versions (v1 v2 v2 etc.) of it and not a new one. After crash the renamed version disappeard. It says at beginn file is corrupt and cant be open, after restart fusion it has disappear also as recovery file.
With corrupt i mean not only what happened in the displayed message from fusion as i lost this version i saved, also the splines that he does interpretate differently and loses the fixing points. I found an option where i was able to set the splines to autocad style, it changed nothing to the imported version.

1. yes i save often, more as necessary meanwhile because of the risk to lose files

2. i tryed switch antialias and other graph options down, no changes in the performance.

3. I expect the software clean the cache at restart, never did it myself.
From now away each restart i do cache cleaning.

4. Diagnostic files say nothing all seams ok, from now away i save and let you have them

5. today i try again go in t spline environement and start redo the lost work of yesterday, if it fails again i try reinstall.

6. i will send you each crash report from now away.

Lets hope i come forward and finish this haunted project.

Thank you again
Regards

@TrippyLighting

If acad would have t spline instead normal mesh i would be in acad and not here. The good thing with splines is that i can fit the intersection points to the coordinates of organic combined to the mechanic parts, another way to combine them i do not see exept the spline construction that allows me to loft the surfaces later.
Thats why i like spline constructions over all. The associativity gives later the same possibility that gives a t spline body, so fit the shapes to other hands.
Do it with acad mesh options offers not the same possibilitys as here. So only way for associativity modding later is the loft way.
In acad the problem of bad gone continuity is and remains the uncontrollable spline twist, and to obtain the continuity that i miss i recurred to fusion.

As i followed the mesh way i used mesh mixer, intant mesh, remake and intersect mesh plugin in fusion without positive results.
To not lose more time i go on with union of freeform faces from dwg surface because i see positive results and is going good if there would not be the performance issue.
But i take in consideration your suggestions, i surely will study the infos of your link and throw an eye on blender and his plugins.

The choice to go on exclusively in t splines is the future flexibility of the organic side. Have a t spline model of it will allow me to adjust the shapes and curves of grip to different hands in a second moment.

Today as soon i will be back i post you the link to the file and let you have pass in private

Thank you again to both of you and see you soon

Fonzis · ‎07-16-2016

http://a360.co/29FUThy

pass is in PM box.

I am on the way to test blender.... lets see how much kg coffee it will cost 😉

TrippyLighting · ‎07-16-2016

I've not received a PM.

You'll need a lot of coffee for Blender. Fortunately there are many excellent tutorials available. My favorite one's are at CG cookie . Blender guru's tutorials are nice as well.

Fonzis · ‎07-17-2016

Hi Trippy

I'v send it only to Phil.E. in the hope he find something to resolve the performance issue. You want it too?

btw, the work of this guy from t-spline post is more as impressive.

Meanwhile i wait for Phil.E i am tryng to understand blender.

TrippyLighting · ‎07-17-2016

The performance issue is possibly related to your model having an unnecessarily high number of segments/edges.

I'd be more interested in seeing the .stl file you created. I have some 10 years of intermittent experience in Blender and also own the RetopoFlow plugin. It would be an interesting exercise to try to retopologize the mesh.

Fonzis · ‎07-17-2016

Hi Trippy
I just sent it to you.
But don't expect anything special. After try to adjust it with the tools i always had huge irregularities and have also try in remake to become something +- acceptable.
At the end i made it in meshmixer, it had the most simple way to smooth all together by excluding the planar surfaces and leaving anyway high mesh res.
The irregularitys of the problemzones was kinda adjusted a bit but not perfectly, so the intent was to adjust it later when it becomes t spline.

The problemzones that i try to fix are:
- the crease in the zone of union between middlefinger and index at the start from trigger guard (both sides).
- The thumbsaddle zone between thumb and index, it is hard to close and adapt to the shape
- the symmetry of the entire topside (meanwhile resolved in fform by cutting out, mirroring, welding)

I am not happy because it also lost material as it was shaped, but also that i had the intention to adjust it in fform later.

here the latest versions

http://a360.co/29Z3ShP recent version of fform where i am at.

http://a360.co/29Z4bcD meshmixer version

TrippyLighting · ‎07-17-2016

It asks me for a password, which I don't have.

Fonzis · ‎07-17-2016

i swear i sent it

TrippyLighting · ‎07-17-2016

Yes, got it. Thanks!

Fonzis · ‎07-18-2016

Perfect

Your welcome

i saw some of those plugin videos of blender.... Amazing the tools, specially the manipulations he make with this green grips....

Phil.E · ‎07-18-2016

The link you provided gives me this result. I think you need to add me to the project, or change the permissions on the link to include anyone who has it.

Phil Eichmiller
Software Engineer
Quality Assurance
Autodesk, Inc.

Fonzis · ‎07-18-2016

Try the last 2 links, its the actual ones and pass is same

thank you

Fonzis · ‎07-21-2016

Good day @Phil.E

Did you have time to find out anything about the performance issue? I wanted to go on with welding and merging yesterday but after 5 min i lost the patience again because the computing time.

Hi @TrippyLighting
Sincerely, in blender i am lost :). I would be very grateful if you help me make this to a solid with the plugin you own. If you make this exercise of retopologize that you told, please let me know

Phil.E · ‎07-21-2016

@Fonzis

Sorry but I just got to this. I don't find any unexpected performance problems with your model. I managed to weld most of it together in a few minutes. There is some minor delay (2-4 seconds) but all operations were fairly quick. My machine is a modest Win 7 HP laptop with a 2GB video card and 8 GB RAM.

Unless I can reproduce a problem, I don't really have a case here for development. Again, with a model like this, performance will degrade. There are quite a few edges, but I did not get any delay longer than a few seconds.

Reading over the post, I don't see any mention of steps taken to improve performance. From what I recall in your CER report, you have pretty good hardware. So you should probably check the following performance related things if you haven't lately:

1. Video drivers, are they up to date? They are dated February 2016.

2. If they are, did you try using DX 9 vs DX 11? You can find the setting in Preferences > Graphics Driver.

3. When did you last restart this machine?

4. Do you have a lot of other apps running at the same time?

5. Are you using two monitors?

6. Is Windows up to date?

These things will not solve the problem, but you probably can improve your performance by maximizing your hardware environment and the Fusion environment.

Another thing that might help is simplifying your model. Have you considered deleting some of these edges? I tried this and in a few seconds I could remove about half them. You may wish to retain some of them in areas of detail. I would guess that if you removed 1/3 to 1/2 the edges or more you will see performance gains.

Thanks and let us know how this goes for you.

Phil Eichmiller
Software Engineer
Quality Assurance
Autodesk, Inc.

Fonzis · ‎07-21-2016

Hi @Phil.E Thank you for your time

No longer then a few secs? sorry but then my fusion is definitively castrated. 15 sec. is minimum waiting time for me by any simple manipulation such as a weld vertex for example.
Well you dont see mentions of what i have try but believe me all possible stuff on the hardware. On the software i did what i found in the forum and the descriptions in the manual section. I am experimenting a lot to bring it to work like at begin. Today i made new install as suggested also from innovatenate, but without amelioration.
A lot of experiments with graphics, as goal to find the version that worked well with over 100 x 100 cell density body, i have try change many things and different drivers.
It was not drivers.

1. video drivers are up to date, when testing maybe not

2. always using dx 11 also setted in fusion, auto off - always use dx11 on.

3. Regular start and shutdown after use.

4. No apps except original hardware controllers

5. Mono LCD 26" HP, logitech keyboard with g303 mouse.

6. Windows autoupdate on

On the hardware side i am still tryng , i was also suspecting antialias, perhaps a shadow conflinct... but neither it was.
Less cells or more cells also changed nothing, i already have try many times thinking it comes from the density, but no. Since those last updates it never worked well again. I made trys with more density as i was learning and all worked, after the mesh experiments i gone back to t-spline and after the updates it has become a catastrof.
The computing time is and remains to long even if i make only the half quantity of your cells, 15x20 as example for the bottom part.
Before care about edges i need unite ok, but bring it to work better is absolute first priority. Else it will be more frustrating as hard to adjust those edges. I tested soft modding tools after new install, the computing times take again over 1 minute, make manipulations that are real time visible is impossible, this meanwhile task manager says Ram use 2 - 4%, cpu use 3 - 4%. There must be something else wrong anyway if the software makes me wait and the hardware is not used to compute...

Fonzis · ‎07-24-2016

i dont know why and i dont know how, but since yesterday my fusion work 10 time faster. I made a test with a big file import and i neither had problems.
wanted to inform you about the positive change in fusion, i can finally go on with try connect those t spline bodys.
Was there any update in the last 2 days?

Fonzis · ‎07-24-2016

CER_133764250 here we go again

again 3 or more hours work lost in a crash while working on t-spline body edges near frozen cells. Fusion was running well, no performance issues.... suddenly crash...