Fusion 360 replacing Eagle in future

[havlicek6TH3H]

Hi,

I heard some part of podcast with Matt Berggren where he talked about his work on Fusion 360 (electronic part of Fusion). Eagle updates seems to be stopped and there are only necessary ones. So I would like to ask if there are any steps toward switching from Eagle to Fusion. I understand, that it would be reasonable step from Autodesk.

Best regards, Vojta

[Anonymous]

Hi Jorge,

I've received several confusing emails from Autodesk about the Fusion 360 change.

I have an Eagle Standard subscription which I pay monthly at £12/month including VAT.

I have received 2 emails over the last few days saying this:

"Your Autodesk Account will be updated with your new Fusion 360 - with EAGLE standard subscription. Your current EAGLE subscription term will remain unaffected and you’ll have the option to renew at your current price of 95.00£ when your existing term ends."

Where did the £95 come from?

Can you just confirm what seems to have been said in this thread already, that I'll be able to continue renewing Eagle Standard monthly at the same price?

Thanks.

[DDD9999]

Quite the clusterfock - expected from Autodesk these days. Little respect for people actually using the products.

So I've had an email 2 days after the change has been made, telling me I should have an EAGLE subscription with my Fusion subscription now, at a renewal price of £95. Well, my current price is over 300 so what's that about 95? Also, my EAGLE subscription isn't showing. All I see is price increase after price increase in Fusion and removal of genuine startup licenses (who is quibbling over the license cost and under 100k turnover after getting funding?); now at 450/year.

No new usable ECAD<->MCAD features released in the past year, whilst updates bring hard crashes and lost work to EAGLE despite the hefty price, as if we are beta testers - and now EAGLE will be integrated natively into Fusion, presumably at some unannounced time. I guess our PCB files will be locked in the cloud too with purposefully awful obfuscation to download our own content.

This software is geared towards free->hobby->startup users, but the real money is coming from professional users which it seems you are trying your best to alienate. When will this mess end? Or is this just the start?

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @Anonymous,

I hope you're doing well. The 95pounds is the yearly subscription rate for Standard, the e-mail assumes a yearly subscriber. As long you keep your monthly subscription going at the same price you're used to you'll be grandfathered in.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best Regards,

[engineeringNCMXB]

Well....I can see that I am not the only one confused by yet another licensing/sales do-over at Autodesk.

If I renew the lower cost 'Fusion 360 - Legacy' do I get Eagle Premium with it at the grandfathered cost?
'Fusion 360 with EAGLE Premium' costs more than my legacy price for Fusion 360, but less than the $820 I paid last year for both of them as separate products.

Both of these subscriptions were set to auto-renew until I manually disabled that. Presumably, Autodesk would have charged me the ~$820 and it would have been up to me to chase down a refund for the over charge?

My confidence has officially been shaken. In my professional world, design software is the foundation of my income. I need consistency and confidence. Even if the same changes but with a year heads-up? Is EAGLE even going to survive? Is it going to be ported into F360 with a scary toddler software migration phase that lasts for 2 years?

[noel_neu]

Oh lord.. Please don't integrate EAGLE into Fusion..

Despite the pricing, which seems to be the main discussion here, I'm much more concerned about how this would f*up EAGLE.

If this is really executed, I fear that EAGLE would follow Fusions lead of forcing "features" onto the user that no professional (or basically anybody) wants, needs, or has ever asked for.

E.g. the inability to have files locally. 🙄

What's so sad about this, is that I actually love the concept of having a single software for various kinds of engineering that are somehow related. 

As in electrical and mechanical engineering. It makes perfect sense.
But Fusion360 is a toy at most. The only reason I am using it, is because it is required for 3D models of EAGLE PCBs.

I don't understand why this is. Autodesk has a perfectly capable and powerful CAD software; Inventor. 
Why not take that as a foundation and remove some features that are specific to mechanical engineering, while keeping the rest.

Fusion is a pain to use. gets ridiculously slow with medium sized models. 

The constraints for assemblies are also a mess imho. Again; why change something that's perfectly fine.

The way I see it, Fusion360 can't be considered a professional software; rather an entry level tool for hobbyists. At least I'm not aware of anybody who uses it in a commercial environment. 
On the other hand, I know a lot of people who are using EAGLE professionally. 

I think, that turning these two into some unified clusterf*ck could backfire massively; if even the very essentials are lacking. 
Such as the freedom to choose on whether to use cloud storage or not, or just solid performance beyond 3D models consisting of one LED, a resistor and a switch. 

I'm hoping the best but expecting the worst 🤕

[engineeringNCMXB]

---

@noel_neu wrote:

But Fusion360 is a toy at most. The only reason I am using it, is because it is required for 3D models of EAGLE PCBs.

🤕

---

Not so fast on that one.....
While F360 is young and far from fulfilling all my design an manufacturing challenges, it is quite powerful in critical environments. I abandoned SolidWorks and MasterCAM after 20+ years to move to F360. I have done very complex and critical work in aerospace and high-end commercial applications. From design to actually personally manufacturing parts in 5 axis mills and 7 axis mill-turn machines from all the usual exotic materials used in aerospace. This is as critical and complex as it gets and Fusion360 gets it done faster and cheaper than my previous tools. I once thought it was a toy until I used it for a time sensitive project.

I also design and manufacture electronics which is obviously where EAGLE comes in. Part of me is terrified of the idea that Eagle could be integrated into Fusion360, the other part of me just wants to tear off the band-aid that is the current version of Eagle. Even after all the Autodesk led improvements....Eagle is still a quilted mish-mash of band-aids. At some point, starting over seems the most efficient way forward.

After the getting a taste of integration from ECAD to MCAD - it is a dream come true for someone in my position. I am willing to suffer a bit if the end result looks like it will take Eagle to a whole new level.

For now, this is all just dreaming. Who knows what will happen in real life.

[dps.lwk]

Total confused by the price here in the UK

I had an "EAGLE Premium" monthly subscription which was £78 (inc VAT) a month

I did not have a paid Fusion 360 licence

I have been grandfathered to a "Fusion 360 - with EAGLE premium" which a billing reminder has just informed me will be £60 hoover I believe the is ex vat, so that would be £72 (in VAT) a month going forward

Yet looking at the fusion 360 subscribe page it shows a "Fusion 360" monthly subscription is £54 (in VAT) a month
and I under stand that this now comes with Eagle premium (16 layers, unlimited board size)??

So would I actually be better off canceling my monthly grandfathered "Fusion 360 - with EAGLE premium" at £72
and getting a new fusion subscription at £54?

I think it great that the Eagle standard users are getting to keep there ~£12 a month/~£114 a year option 
but although there is a drop in price (£75>£72 if my vat calc is correct) for Eagle premium monthly users why has it not dropped to just the £54 of a current fusion subscription??

Matt
 

[tomo1230]

Hi! @jorge_garcia ,

Which EAGELE edition is included with the Fusion 360 Personal License and Startup License?

Premium or Standard or Free?

[jorge_garcia]

Hello @tomo1230,

That's an awesome avatar, really like the Fusion 360 user card. Welcome to the EAGLE forums. To answer your question.

Fusion 360 Personal gets EAGLE free entitlement (80cm^2, 2 layers, 2 schematic sheets)
Fusion 360 Startup gets no EAGLE entitlement assigned.

That's the answer I just received from the appropriate team. Startup getting no entitlement seems odd to me. I'm going to followup on that.

Best Regards,

[marcoJTHQQ]

Confused?, yes....

I have BOTH Fusion 360 AND Eagle premium subscription. Having "Fusion 360 with Eagle Premium" allows me to stop "the Fusion 360 - Legacy" subscription, without loosing Fusion 360? Do I need to reinstall fusion 360 and Eagle, or is it just a subscription hustle? 

[DDD9999]

Just a thought - wouldn't it have been more appropriate to get all the ducks in a row before pushing changes to users?

It's very unnerving to rely on any Autodesk software in a growing business increasing feeling like a beta tester than paying user of Eagle.

The capabilities and updates are so exciting and I can almost get on board with these changes as they are mostly the things I'm looking for, except that nagging feeling I'm being backed into a corner putting up with automatic updates, files locked in the cloud, updates with hard-crashes not properly tested, unannounced license changes, features released whilst still broken and a risk to file integrity etc. all in the name of forcing integration into Fusion as quickly as possible, where these issues seem like they will continue into perpetuity, at which point we see a price hike for the integrated product.

[alexA3RDM]

To wit, I’d happily sign a (limited scope) NDA and join a focus group to reaction test such changes before they go live. 

[Anonymous]

Over the last 3 and a half years, Autodesk has put significant wok into developing EagleCad. Multiple bugs and many great features have been added, But heres the problem that I have.

1.  Getting details to the public has never been clear or Autodesk goes back on what they promise. For example,
   1. Saying that after Autodesk acquired EagleCAD the same perpetual licensing would continue into the future, then changing that after the the 7.7 release.
   2.  Notice on Fusion360 news page that licensing would include EagleCAD posted before email messages were sent out. To this day not a single official response from Autodesk to the EagleCAD community has been made, only response to this thread on the forum.
   3. New licensing model is still not made clear anywhere. bugfixes or feature request buried on the forum. Still no offical way to submit bug request unless one uses the forum.
2. It has been months (get get specific date since dates aren't posted with articles,), since any new update has been put on the official blog for EagleCAD. One thing that the EagkeCAD team could learn from the Fusion360 team. There is constant updates on the current state of the software, at least a once a year update with the teams road map of features that they are working on currently and in the future, and
3. Bugfixes or new feature requests have been made, some dating back many years and every time the official response is, "Added but its not a high priority", or "This is a top priority", but still a fix has not been made. Then there are the times where mods will say that the team is hard at work on a solution, but then years go by befoe its released, even when were told that it will be released soon (managed libraries debacle FYI).
4. Releasing unfinished features. Under Autodesk EagleCAD for the first 2 years was receiving 5/6 per year, a huge improvement of Cadsofts 2/3. For 2019 releases dropped to 3.

• 9.5: 9/25/2019
  9.4: 4/24/2019
  9.3: 1/16/2019
  9.2: 9/28/2018
  9.1: 6/30/2018
  9.0: 4/18/2018
  8.7: 3/9/2018
  8.6: 1/24/2018
  8.5: 12/12/2017
  8.4: 10/17/2017
  8.3: 8/16/2017
  8.2: 5/22/2017
  8.1: 3/15/2017
  8.0: 1/16/2017
  7.7: 10/5/2016

Now these releases did have some huge problems, not being able to share managed libraries, package generator only displaying wireframes, online integration, random crashes, and multiple different regression failures. Some of these have been fixed, but most have not.

5. Forced integration with Cloud. This dates back all the way to the initial shared library implementation. After Autodesk University 2019 Las Vegas, Fusion360 showcased that EagleCAD was completely integrated into Fusion360, and the recent licensing change, it is now understood that EagleCAD and Fusion are to become one.

Overall, the quality of EagleCAD had an initial increase through 2018, but with 2019, I have seen EagleCAD return to the old Cadsoft days. EagleCADs time is limited especially since it has been showcased being integrated into Fusion360, thus making it some kind of cloud based software. This might be okay, but the response of mods on the transition to the cloud has been, well this is where industry is going so so shall we. Unless something changes soon, I am ready to switch over to KiCAD since it is the only other PCB software that will support Linux. Im sad to say this as I have grown up with EagleCAD wit the recent changes I no longer feel that Autodesk respects us customers and that they want us to conform to a new way to use there software.

[dps.lwk]

If they do fully integrate Eagle in Fusion I'd be very worried about the loss of multiple windows

I run Eagle over 3 monitors, each with a separate window, Schematic, Library and Board

having them all side by side make for a great work flow
even when using my laptop I have an external screen (Packed Pixels) to put my schematic window on

Fusion 360 is a single window application with different workspaces

I can't be the only user with this type of setup

[Anonymous]

Hi, Jorge,  

       I'm getting different messages from Autodesk - this is still true, correct?

Whenever you need to go Premium, just pay for the month( the two entitlements will live side by side the standard and the premium). Once the month is over the Premium will drop off and the Standard will take over. 

Thank you,

Best regards,

Frank

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @dps.lwk,

I hope you're doing well. Without giving too much away, this won't be a problem. 🙂

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

[jorge_garcia]

Hi @Anonymous,

I hope you're doing well. This is still true. Where are you seeing something that contradicts this.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

Hi, Jorge,

Maybe I am mis-understanding the reply.
If I try to read between the lines of your Forum reply - I know that all Eagle Standard subscribers get Fusion 360, and the surprise is they actually will get Eagle Premium, but you can’t say that yet. Just nod your head :).
It would be very useful to complete the rollout with a table that compares the various levels of Eagle/Fusion.

And here is my personal position.
Orcad is out of my price range, and in a panic I have started to learn Kicad but really don’t like the libraries without footprints. I like the Eagle libraries a lot, both the native to Autodesk ones and the various Sparkfun / etc. libraries. I don’t want to be pushed away from Eagle, and my budget says I can only do a month or two of Eagle Premium a year, as buying boards and parts adds up.

Thanks and Cheers!,
Frank

From: "Lourdes V. Vasquez"
> Subject: RE: Limited time offer! Get EAGLE and Fusion 360 for only $100 USD
> Date: January 21, 2020 at 10:16:38 AM EST
> To: Frank Wissman
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> Yes, so long as you continue to renew with no lapse on the EAGLE Standard subscription you are all set.
>
> EAGLE Premium is now only available along with a Fusion 360 subscription and includes full access to 999 schematic sheets, 16 signal or plane layers and unlimited board area, Fusion 360, Fusion 360 - Team Participant, HSMWorks, and access to consumptive services, such as generative design, cloud simulation, and cloud rendering. You cannot switch between Standard and EAGLE.
>
> Let me know if I can further assist.
>
> Best,
>
> -Lourdes
>
> From: Frank Wissman >
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 8:50 AM
> To: Lourdes V. Vasquez >
> Subject: Re: Limited time offer! Get EAGLE and Fusion 360 for only $100 USD
>
> Hi, Lourdes,
>
> I’ve done a little more reading, it looks like I will continue with my seat, here are my assumptions:
> I signed up on Sep 18 for a Standard seat of Eagle for $100. My subscription now reads as Fusion 360 with Eagle Standard and is good until Sep 18, 2020.
> I am grandfathered in at the $100/yr rate as long as I keep my subscription current.
>
> Please confirm that I am still able to upgrade to Eagle Premium on a month-by-month basis and then revert to Eagle Standard.
> Please confirm that I don’t have to do anything about my Standard subscription until Sep.
>
> Thank you,
> Frank

[alexA3RDM]

The "without giving too much away" post was in reply to a different user.

My assumption is, the licensing change is meant to pave the way for "you all get premium now (effectively)" when they launch full integration and don't bother supporting price discrimination. But for now you still get grandfathered on either "premium" or "standard" because they don't want to force-change billing on people.

[infoPZZMK]

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@dps.lwk wrote:

If they do fully integrate Eagle in Fusion I'd be very worried about the loss of multiple windows

I run Eagle over 3 monitors, each with a separate window, Schematic, Library and Board

having them all side by side make for a great work flow
even when using my laptop I have an external screen (Packed Pixels) to put my schematic window on

Fusion 360 is a single window application with different workspaces

I can't be the only user with this type of setup

---

Me too, 3 screens, could not work with one.