2023: Robot to Revit integration

[alexpapado1821]

I inserted the analytical model from Robot to Revit. How can I produce the physical model?

[okapawal]

In version 2023 structural physicals model is not created.  The link creates analytical elements with material and section properties.

It is a new concept of analytical model in Revit which is independent from the physical model.

This Analytical Driven Modeling for Revit introduces a new approach to analytical modeling, with enhanced structural modeling capabilities.

See more in Revit help

https://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2023/ENU/?guid=GUID-A23F0F2D-C5D4-426A-8130-5F491B0D7C6C

[alexpapado1821]

I Understand that having a steel structure in mind,  if the analytical model is created in robot, the following workflow should be used:

1. Creation of analytical model in Robot.

2. Creation of steel connections in Robot.

3. Creation of concrete elements in Robot.

2. The analytical model is sent to Revit.

3. The physical model (steel and concrete elements) is MANUALLY created in Revit, using the analytical model as a background (no automation available).

4. Each steel connection is  created in Revit from scratch. Each steel connection tab must be opened in Robot and be visually copied in order to be created it in Revit.

5. The concrete reinforcement for every concrete element is created in Revit from scratch. Each reinforcement tab must be opened in Robot and be visually copied in order to be created in Revit.

7. Foundation elements are also created from scratch, with zero information transferred from Robot.

Is the above description correct?

[pawelpiechnik]

Hi Alex, 

The physical model automation didn't make it to this month's 2023 release but as you can see it from the Revit Roadmap we are working towards it.

Please see it as a temporary gap as we are enhancing the concept of the interoprablity: The idea is to move the Analytical to Physical model automation to Revit where overall coordination across models, and between those who own those models (single user, multiple users) can be the most robust. With this approach the automation would apply to more than just Robot interoperability. There is more to come to support BIM-centric workflows. 

[alexpapado1821]

Dear @pawelpiechnik.

From your answer I understand that the workflow that was described above is correct and it is the only way to work for an undetermined period of time.

I also understand that there are no plans for transfer of steel connections (and reinforcement) between robot and revit, as I could find no reference in the roadmap.

As a structural engineer working mainly on steel structures, I think that  the evolution of this software package has taken two steps behind. I'd like to point out that having to model all of the steel connections twice in the era of BIM is driving me crazy. Up until 2022, at least some of the connections could be modelled just once.

It is discouraging that the he competitive software packages offer no  alternatives that I'm aware off. No mater the combination of software, steel connections must be modeled twice.

I'm starting to wonder if software companies have any meaningful interaction with everyday practicing engineers who just need to deliver.

Regards

[pawelpiechnik]

Alex,

Apologies for not being clear. I was referring to your original question about the model automation.

Let me take the other topic now. I’ll try to connect some dots, so please assess whether this will be helpful and relevant to your needs or not.

I’m reading that you need to use Robot and Revit for their complementarity and to end up in Revit with a construction model and documentation. Likely to connect design outcomes to detailing (or maybe also fabrication coordination). 

The simplest recommendation to start from is that if we need to end up with Revit, it’s better to start with Revit. Here is the thought process for Analysis and building layout design intent:

• Start with Revit with a construction-oriented model. Model based on your input data, whether this is a model from an architect, dwg, dxf, or a pdf file you can snap or reference to.
• From the physical one, create analytical model automatically.  The opposite way would be later possible too, but it’s naturally easier to create an accurate analytical model from physical for analysis than an accurate and constructable physical model from an analytical simplification.
• Export to Robot, at this moment to add loads/combinations etc, to run the analysis.
• Now, bidirectional iterations would work for analytical topology and properties. To update the physical constructable model automatically however, this feature that I pointed out on the Roadmap will be needed.

For the code design:

• For steel connections, the recommended new workflow is to automate connections modeling in Revit based on a library of standards (AISC, DSTV, BCSA/Green Book) or on custom connection. It is however a one-time effort to create your library of predesigned connections, so that it could be later reused across projects. Please see here. Predesign can happen in Revit with e.g. Idea Statica which is very popular among Robot users, as it covers both EC3 and AISC (or with Robot, but then you would need to recreating in Revit to save into a library). As you said, there is no connections transfer from Robot to Revit. The point is however that from Revit you can transfer connections to Steel Detailing & Fabrication software and this is why we see Revit as a source of truth for connections.
• For rebar, the only good transfer we ever had for rebar is required reinforcement. So here there isn’t yet any good recommendation for a Robot workflow, as you said, for provided reinforcement. Our partners do provide Concrete Design tools working directly on top of Revit, which you may want to consider. And again, due to the benefit of quantifiable, construction clash free, and detailed shop deliverables, Revit should be the hub for rebar model. Subject to expected improvements regarding the interoperability, indeed.

It’s not yet where we want to be, but I believe with that, you have more information on  the direction that is being taken.

regards

[gustavo_c_vasconcellos]

@alexpapado1821 , for concrete design, you can import the required reinforcement in Revit using The Structural Analysis plugin and then, use third-party plugins, like Graitec's PowerPack Desing, or Softstik, to design and detail the reiforcement inside Revit.

Gustavo

[EduPérez_SGT]

@pawelpiechnik We are considering starting a new project in Revit 2023, but the fully independant analytical-physical model makes us wonder if we should remain in Revit 2022. Do you know when will analytical and physical models be linked as they should to?

Thanks.

[bartolome.tavera]

I can't believe this, how is it possible that when exporting the Robot model to Revit the physical model is not created?
My heart has been completely broken. It has been a tragedy for the work in BIM in our office of structural projects, we are shocked.

[okapawal]

The automation to create Physicals model from Analytical is on the roadmap. Revit development team is working on this.

[bartolome.tavera]

Thank you Waldemar

[okapawal]

The automation script to create Physicals model from Analytical is available with Revit 2023.1 release

[bartolome.tavera]

Gracias!!!

[ge96nif]

Honestly this is so strange to me! The whole idea of Robot or why I was attracted to it was because of Revit. Learning Robot, especially with the limited recourses, was hard and now it seems to me that the new version is completely distancing itself from Robot. Is there any way to start from Robot (since for us as structural engineers is better and easier) and only detail in Revit? Before the process was you create a physical model and then analytical was given. All you had to do is to do analysis and then import the detailing to Revit again. Simply two steps! Now you have to create the physical, then create analytical, then go to Robot and do the steps. Weird. Also, in my opinion this separation of physical and analytical in the same software creates more errors than "easier workflow"

[tomasz.wojdyla]

Hello @ge96nif !

Thank you for your comment! Please be sure that your opinion matters and I am sure our colleagues, who are making strategic decisions regarding development and are also monitoring forums, will consider all of them. 

Let me answer to the question: Is there any way to start from Robot (...)

Yes, from link perspective it has not changed, starting your work from Robot and sending it to Revit is possible, but indeed what you will get in Revit is analytical model (inc. supported attributes). Following the idea of more flexibility between physical and analytical models in Revit and intention described by @pawelpiechnik , link is no longer generating physical objects but focusing on analytical elements only, nevertheless, as @okapawal wrote, since 2023.1 you shall be able to overcome easier the step of physical model generation, with this second automation tool of 'analytical-to-physical'. These tools are iteratively getting improved, but I am sure you will be able to learn more about them from practitioners in Revit forum. For the group of users that seek for greater flexibility, defining physical model and associating them to analytical instances in Revit without the use of automation tools is also an option. Hope that helps.

[ge96nif]

Thank you for the great answer. 

I just have one follow up, if I may please. What is the reason Robot and Revit don't have a better integration? Specifically if I design in Robot, I would have thought it would be a matter of a click to send the rebars to Revit and only worry about the presentation. With this new work-flow, it is obvious to me that you design in Robot, but have to redesign the rebars in Revit again. So I am wondering if that will change or this gap will stay between these two programs. 

Th reason I am asking this is because there are many other competitive programs that don't have this issue. For example with SOFiSTiK, you can design in Revit, send it to SOFiSTiK, and when it comes back the automation is so easy that you only worry about presentation and not remodeling of rebars and so on. 

Appreciate your answer. 

HRH

[pawelpiechnik]

Robot, by its nature - being an Analysis tool, is working with  Analytical Model and its physical model representation (derived from analytical) is not very accurate as compared to "to build" construction model, unlike how it works in Revit where both physical and analytical are represented. Therefore, rebar created in Robot, when transferred to Revit physical model was not very accurate and therefore perceived as low quality workflow and the feedback we were getting was that it was easier to create it from scratch in Revit rather than correcting. We need to find a better way to make it transferred if possible, as we agree that rebar automation from design codes is important.

The other approach that which users do embrace is to model rebar  (through design codes – see Graitec’ s BIM designer, Sofistik’ s rebar generator) directly in Revit relying in required reinforcement areas transferred from Analysis tools. We see this as the future of code design – consume analysis results and work with detailed model directly where physical BIM representation is.

regards

[erquimi]

Excuse me, how do you download Revit 2023.1, it doesn't appears :c?

[okapawal]

@erquimi 

Log in to Autodesk Accounts  https://accounts.autodesk.com/

Go to Product Updates and filter product to Revit.  You will find all updates

[erquimi]

Thanks youuu!!!✨