Symbols in a nested family

[eriktoom]

I have created a nested family with interchangeable components (Example-1 or see my other forum post HERE). Now I would like to add symbols to the nested family so that they will be shown in the 2D plan. But first let me explain step by step how I created my nested family because that could be a useful information regarding my symbol problem:

1) firstly I created a frame using a Generic model face based template

2) then I created a few separate switches using the Generic model face based template (separate family for each switch type)

3) then I used again the Generic model face based template and loaded the frame and switches. For placing the frame I used Create - Component. The same process with the switches. Should I use a simple Generic model template instead when creating nested family (if so, why)? 

Now back to the main topic. Symbols. I understand that I have to create a separate families for each symbol using a Metric Generic Annotation as a template. After that I have to open the switch family and place the created symbol into that, right? I tried to do that with on of the switches, updated the nested family, but when inserting the nested family into the linked revit file, the symbol does not show up in a 2D plan. What I would like to achieve at the end is when placing a 3-place frame with different switches inside then in the 2D plan the symbols would show up like in the picture attached below (Example-3). Any pointers, tutorials on how to do that? 

[stever66]

Maybe start with loading a symbol into a simple family so you get the hang of it, and then try your more complex family.

I always start from within the symbol family, with the model family open.   use the “load family into open project”.   That lets you place the symbol in the model.  It also place the symbol in the project browser for the model, so you can drag additional symbols from the project browser into the model.

Symbols only show up in plan views.  So if it doesn’t show up, try placing one on the floor plan, and also the ceiling plan.  If it still doesn’t show up, it’s probably outside the view range.   Try setting the workplace before placing the symbol.

[s.borello]

Edit your family and check the visibility of your nested family... Is it set to appear in course, medium, fine detail? I bet this could be your issue... see attached image. 

[dmiller_SCE]

The generic annotation will only show 1 nest deep. If you are putting the annotation in the switch family and then loading that switch family into another family the annotation will not show in the project(unless the switch family is shared). You need to put the generic annotation directly into the base family that is being loaded into the project. If you are using multiple symbols then you will need to use parameters to control the visibility. If you post an example family may help with assisting you. 

[eriktoom]

When placing the symbol into a switch family, does the option Maintain annotation origin under the Family Category and Parameters should be ticked as well? And the same maybe in the nested family? I tried to insert the symbol into a shared switch family, then loaded it back into a nested family. But when placing the nested family into a project, nothing shows up. 

Anyway I attached the nested family and symbols for you to get the idea of what I have done so far. If you can see there's something wrong, just tell me. 

[fabiosato]

Hello,

As @dmiller_SCE mentioned, annotations in the nested families will not appear in the project environment, the annotations must be placed in the host family, and Maintain Annotation may be checked, if you are using a face based template in the host family.

[eriktoom]

I am confused now. So my file Switch-3.rfa is called a host family, right? And the switch family inside there is called a nested family as I understand. So I should then import a bunch of symbols into a host family and control their visibility via parameters? What I would like to achieve is when changing the switch type the symbol would change with it. That's why I was trying to insert each symbol in its own switch family. Is that impossible to do? 

[dmiller_SCE]

Yes, you need to have the annotation directly in the host family that is loaded into the project. You can still have the annotation change with the switches. you will just need to create additional parameters to create the functionality. 

[eriktoom]

Do you aknowledge that I have a 3-place frame but more than 3 switch types to choose. Is it still possible to make it work as I want (symbol changes when changing the switch type)? Can you guide me on how to achieve that? I have struggled with it 2 days and have not found any tutorial that is even close to what I need. 

[dmiller_SCE]

@eriktoom  I took a quick look at your family. One issue that I see with the way that you have the family is that the 3 switches you have nested into the host family could have a different symbol for each switch correct? However, in a 2d floor plan view, all of the symbols will be stacked on top of each other because the device is vertical on the wall. I will be happy to help you but I still do not understand the end goal.  Do you want different symbols for each nested switch to show at the same time on a 2d floor plan?

[eriktoom]

@dmiller_SCE Yes, exactly. The end user of mine is going to use 2D plans when constructing the object in real life. So whenever I change the switch type the symbol should change with it. Keep in mind that in the family I attached I have not inserted the other switch versions yet (there's going to be like 10 different types to choose at the end). The same with symbols - I attached 2 different types. I just need to know if it's gonna work or not, before moving on and complete my family for good. And what else I would like to see is that even if I move the switch in a 2D plan, it moves along in the 3D plan as well. The thing is that I am moving the switch constantly because of the architectural plan change or depending on the client feedback. Also the switch symbol distances from the 2D plan wall should be changeable as well. Because most of the times there is a socket installed in the same place (just in different height) and I don't want to see overlapping of different symbols. So if you see my attachments (Example-4 and Example-5), you will probably understand what I need to achieve. If not, I will try to explain better.

[dmiller_SCE]

@eriktoom  I understand what you need now, and what you describe is possible.  I will be busy this morning, but I will try to help this evening if possible. 

[dmiller_SCE · Accepted solution]

Here is a very rough example of how to achieve what I think you need. This is not refined or a cleaned-up family but just a rough concept that you can take and tweak towards your need. I personally do not like to use the family type selector parameter in a family like this because if the project is very large, you could have dozens of family types in the drop-down. In reality, you probably want to constrain the possibilities to just a few and not have every lighting device loaded in the project as an option to select in the family.  If this doesn't help you, let me know as I can also achieve similar results with another method, but it is a little more difficult/ advanced with setting up the families.  I also think that you should look at the size of your generic annotation symbols. I usually work in imperial units, but I think that your symbols are created too large. Generic annotation scale with the scale of the drawings. 

[dmiller_SCE]

@eriktoom  quick proof of concept for family attached in the previous post. 

 

[eriktoom]

@dmiller_SCE Thank you, your example works but I am trying to work it through backwards myself now based on your family to fully understand the concept. But I can't understand what I am doing wrong in the symbols family. I created two symbols in the same family, grouped each one of them, added YES/NO parameters and tied it with an integer value parameter (POS1). But when applying the Preview Visibility ON to try it out, nothing changes whether the POS1 value is set to 1 or 2. You can see my attached family. The symbols there are made within Detail Items template now. 

BTW I got to work it other way as well yesterday, later on I will try to explain how or at least upload the family example. 

[dmiller_SCE]

@eriktoom You need to assign the yes/no visibility parameters to the linework in each respective group. Also keep in mind that Detail Items do not scale with the scale of the drawings and Labels cannot be added directly in the detail item family type.  The example I provided is only one way to achieve this and other methods are available. It can also be achieved using the type selector and having each symbol nested in the respective switch family like your original approach. 

[eriktoom · Accepted solution]

@dmiller_SCE Okay I got it now. Thanks! 

So my solution is based on the Detail Items. At first I created a symbol using a Detail Item template. But as you said yourself Detail Items will not scale with the drawing scale. Then loaded each detail item to its own switch family and added a distance parameter in the same family to control the distance from the wall. Then loadad the switch family into host family. In the host family I created aadditional distance parameters and tied them up with the switch family distance parameters. Not good at explaining but probably you will understand if you open my attached family. Parameter names are in my local language though, but sholdn't be a problem. 

Happy that this problem is solved now. This is just my 3rd week into Revit and I will definetely come back to get answers to further questions.