Duct not showing in architectural model

[David125]

I did a very basic duct layout to show diffusers and duct in a room that will not have a ceiling. I used the Revit Mech template, referenced in my arch model did my layout and it looks fine. I drew only duct and diffusers, and did not attach supply equipment because it is in another room. This this thing is for show only. I referenced the mech model into my arch model and got very little of my duct work.

[Scott_D_]

I had cause to try something similar today, RCP views that cover more than 1 level do not work correctly.

Setting the base RCP view range to the height of a single level then using a plan region to move the Top plane upwards doesn't display the ducts above the current level.

Setting the base RCP view range to the height that includes several levels then using a plan region to move the Top plane downwards always displays the ducts, pipes and tray above the current level when it should not.

Completely broken.

[RobDraw]

Thanks for confirming that it is repeatable and apparently a bug, because fittings do show. More ammo for my ongoing "No ducts on RCPs and no ceiling grids on floor plans" argument.

[Judy_S]

Hello, All,

Great discussion going here. I wasn't sure if this was more of a workflow question at first but as more comments have come in and you're describing the steps you're taking, I'll test to see if I can reproduce the issue and I'll let you know what I find. It may take a day or two - I won't be able to finish the testing today.

Thanks for all the information! Feel free to add any information or screenshots that you think would be helpful. 

Best,

Judy_S

[Scott_D_]

If you can ask the Devs to change the way the RCP view ranges are setup to use the Top/Cut Plane/Bottom/View Depth as well that would be great as it confuses the hell out of everyone on the planet. Even to experienced users it makes no sense whatsoever.

It makes no sense and it has no way of automatically applying the Above Linestyle to things at high level and above ceilings as it currently applies the Beyond Linestyle for things between Bottom and Below planes.

We could use another plane above Top so that when the cut plane goes through a space to make it pick up the space name and the Top is at the level of a ceiling another plane would be set at the level above such that anything between Top and Level Above would be displayed with the Above Linestyle.

[Judy_S]

Hi, all,

I've started doing some testing with the sample Revit models that come with the software, but since they don't have a high bay I may  not be getting comparable results. If someone can post a trimmed-down version of your Arch and MEP files with just enough ductwork, ceilings, floors and levels to illustrate the problem, that would be a great help. A video would also be really useful; in order to test this properly I need to make sure I can replicate exactly what you're doing step by step. There are a lot of wild cards in terms of how the VG of the view and the link, so the only way to get it right is to see what you are doing. I'm happy to do a screenshare via Teamviewer if you like, @David125. You can PM me and we can organize that next week some time.

@Scott_D_, I get what you are saying about how view ranges are confusing. I actually have far less power to propose software changes than you the customers do, so I really encourage you to post the suggestion on the Revit Ideas page, and be sure to include the business case for why this should be changed and how you'd like it to work. 

Best regards,

Judy_S

[RobDraw]

@Judy_S, in my case the ductwork is not linked in and I am getting the same thing. I'll try to get something together for you but it won't happen right away. I believe you can replicate the issue by simply creating some ductwork and fittings in a RCP view that is above the view range. Then create a plan region with a view range that allows you to view the ductwork that outside the view range of the RCP view.

I'm pretty sure that the combination of the RCP view and the extended view range utilizing a plan region is the root of the problem.

[David125]

Give me a couple of days, I can send you a scaled down version of my "issue". Don't be surprised if my view range is all over the place.

[Judy_S]

Hi, everyone,

I've done some testing and am also finding that RCP views don't give satisfactory results (assuming what I'm doing is essentially the same as what you're doing). But I tried this with a section of the rme_advanced_sample_project and maybe this will help:

1. I opened the Level 1 HVAC plan (floor plan, not RCP - stick with me here for a minute!)

2. In VG, I made Ceilings 100% transparent, and turned off floors.

3. in view properties, I set the Underlay Range: Base Level to Level 2, the Underlay Range: Top Level to Level 3, and the underlay orientation to Look Up. In the screenshot, you can see the Level 1 duct in darker blue, the Level 2 duct in lighter blue, and the Level 1 ACT ceiling. (I did not use a plan region.)

Does this get you what you're looking for?

Let me know if this helps. If not, I'll be looking for your sample files to see what's different. 

Cheers,

Judy_S

[RobDraw]

Curious, several of us have stated that this issue is within plan regions. Why didn't you try one?

I started getting a sample going for you based on the architectural link sample model but have gotten busy since. I will try to get back to that ASAP.

[Judy_S]

Hi, RobDraw,

I didn't try a plan region because when I tried these settings, I could see the ducts in the levels above, and I was using a floor plan view rather than an RCP. However, since you asked about it, I made a copy of the view and added a plan region. Mainly, what I found is that the settings that were most important for showing the duct as well as the ceiling were the underlay settings. I've attached a copy of the project file I used so you can see what I did and whether it applies to your situations (as I mentioned, there are a number of things I don't know about the project you're working in, so there may be factors I have not been able to account for in setting up the sample as I have). Remember, ceilings are 100% transparent and floors have been turned off in  these views. Please have a look and let me know if what I did is helpful. Level 1 HVAC Plan is the view from which I made the above screenshot. Level 1 HVAC Plan Copy 1 is the same view the plan region included. Let me know what you think. If this doesn't help you achieve what you're going for, I'll need to see your model so I can understand the particulars that you are dealing with. 

Until next time!

Judy_S

[Judy_S]

Hi, @RobDraw and @David125,

Just wondering if you still need help with the duct issue we've been working on, as I haven't heard from you in a while. Let me know!

Thanks,

Judy_S

[RobDraw]

This really is a non-issue for me as I don't use RCPs for ductwork. I joined the conversation as confirmation of the bug rather than improper settings.

Let me say again, that the use of a plan region to extend the view range of an RCP is the root of it, as others have stated as well.

[Scott_D_]

I use RCPs for coordination so yes, having invisible duct that should be visible is a problem.

Sounds like it just needs reporting as a bug.

Not sure why you can set a Plan view to 'look up', what is the purpose of this?

[Judy_S]

Hi, all,

As the workaround I suggested didn't answer all your questions, and I was able to reproduce the issue, I've submitted the issue of duct not showing in RCP views inside plan regions for internal review. Once I get more information from the development team, I'll post the news here. Thanks for your patience while we look into it!

Best,

Judy_S

[Judy_S]

Hello, all,

I wanted to let you know that the development team is currently investigating this issue of duct not displaying properly in plan regions for a possible cause and resolution. I've written an article In Revit RCP views, duct is not visible inside plan regions, which will be updated when further information becomes available. I've just published it so it may take an hour or two to make its way through our servers to be visible to the world, so if you get the page not found error, please try again a little later. You may want to bookmark the page so you can check for updates.

I wish I could, but I can't give you any timeline on when there might be more news about the work on this issue. Some issues are relatively easy to fix, while others require major code changes, so there's no way at this point to predict what the investigation will tell us. 

Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention, and thank you also for your patience while we look into it. I know this has caused a lot of frustration, so I want you all to know we take it seriously and are working to understand the problem. Please let us know if you have any other questions or comments.

Best regards,

Judy_S

[RobDraw]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I use RCPs for coordination so yes, having invisible duct that should be visible is a problem.

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Why are you using RCP views for coordination of anything other than ceiling devices?

[Scott_D_]

I use them when I want the cut plane at a specific height to cut through a room or when I have an existing ceiling plan and want to change the top plane to see something on the floor above instead of creating new views or swapping to 3D for example.

[RobDraw]

Judy,

Thanks for your persistence on this bug.

While, IMHO, the practice of showing ducts or piping in a RCP view or showing ceiling grids on a floor plan are drafting faux pas. They are mistakenly accepted in the industry and actually wrongly required by some places. I think Revit is proof of why it is not proper to do either.

It's amazing that if enough people bring attention to something that shouldn't work and call it broken, that it warrants trying to find a "fix" for something that really isn't broken. 

[RIPENG]

"It's amazing that if enough people bring attention to something that shouldn't work and call it broken, that it warrants trying to find a "fix" for something that really isn't broken."

I do not agree.

People are bringing attention to a programmatic inconsistency and are requesting consistency. Please see attached for an example of an RCP with plan region from Revit 2019.2. In the main RCP area ductwork is rendered. In the plan region area only duct fittings are rendered. It is inconsistent to show one duct related element in an RCP plan region while neglecting to show the duct itself.

"While, IMHO, the practice of showing ducts or piping in a RCP view or showing ceiling grids on a floor plan are drafting faux pas. They are mistakenly accepted in the industry and actually wrongly required by some places. I think Revit is proof of why it is not proper to do either."

Again, Revit should behave consistently so that operators can use it in wrong ways productively. Please resolve the inconsistency so those using Revit incorrectly can do so consistently.

Regards,

Jake Staub

[RobDraw]

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@RIPENG wrote:

Again, Revit should behave consistently so that operators can use it in wrong ways productively.

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That is really funny!

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@RIPENG wrote:

Please resolve the inconsistency so those using Revit incorrectly can do so consistently.

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I guess some people don't appreciate something not working correctly when they are doing it wrong.