Restore auto-healing functionality for piping and duct in non-workshared models for Revit 2021 version and later

[rafal.lewandowski]

With the permission of one of the customers, I wanted to present an enhancement request for Revit. Starting with version 2021, changes have been implemented for joining straight pipe and duct sections after removing accessories such as coupling, valve or dumper. Auto-healing functionality for piping and duct is available in version 2020 and lower.

Legacy Behavior Revit 2020:

New Behavior Revit 2021:

Quick pipes or ducts connection can be achieved by using the Trim (TR) command.

This Idea Station aims to measure how many users are dissatisfied with the new solution. Changes have been made to Revit 2021 to ensure that there are consistent and predictable results when multiple users collaborate through various modeling, coordinating, spooling, and other such activities in workshared models. More on this topic can be found under these links:

• Revit Help: Using Worksharing with MEP Elements
  
• Revit Blog: Revit 2021 Worksharing improvements for MEP
  

[smurck]

With the loss of the healing capability it has completely change my work flow. I am leaving coupling all of the place where I used to remove them after my edits. If I have an elbow setup with different throats I need to insert a couple in order to maintain the integrity of that fitting and prevent it from changing back to the default if I am doing something down stream of it. Otherwise it will default back the standard elbow, which means I have to keep an eye on every fitting so I can go back and rework it to the way I intended. it creates A lot more work and its very annoying. If you can't correct this then you may have to rethink automatic updating altogether. Then Revit won't be Revit anymore. 

Respectfully Stephen

[MikeMcGinn-PACE]

We have issues with fabrication piping within Revit.  If you trim the piping as recommended by Autodesk, another coupling will be placed on the ends of both pipes.  We get into a circular reference to trim & delete.  The only option is to delete one of the pipes & drag it to an adjacent fitting to connect.  This also has an effect on the hangers.  When you delete the extra pipe, you now have hangers floating in space not associated with any pipe & will no longer move with other pipes.

[awuPVMND]

The following is what we experienced when using Fabparts in Revit 2021. This does not seem to be an issue in Revit 2020. We are using the Soldered Copper as an example to illustrate the issue below, and we observed the same action with other pipe material.

It seems that Revit 2021 changed some feature of the Fabpart tool.

Issue:

After deleting a Tee created by using Trim/Extend tool, or “route and fill” with Fabparts, the horizontal straight pipe will be disconnected instead of healing itself as shown below.

When trying to manually connect the pipe using the trim tool, or “drag and sanp”, the system will create an adapter to connect the two pipe, instead of heal the pipe seamlessly.

We are hoping that there could be an option in Revit Fabparts to let us choose to heal, or not heal the pipe. 

[Martin__Schmid]

@MikeMcGinn-PACE - in general when detailing for construction/installation, there is ambiguity as to the right thing to do.  For example, the pipe in the recording below is a full length intentionally... so if the pipe were to heal with the removal of the valve, it would need to be re-optimized anyway.. so that's the general recommendation.. re connect as you wish (trim/drag), considering the placement of full length elements, then use the optimize tool.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/99b7d854-b663-492d-98cf-79268093aea2

Note that the optimize tool can heal pipe and removes couplings that aren't needed ( we don't do it automatically, as it may be the user added couplings to facilitate installation, spool joint locations, etc.)... the tool also will retain relationship w/ hangers to avoid that problem you mentioned.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/d844871f-48fc-444e-afbe-017d3a5059c5

[smurck]

Thanks for responding but your example dose not address the problem. One of main reasons I like Revit is its ability to automatically insert fitting base on changes to the duct using routing preferences. Your example dose not relate to ductwork as piping is static and ductwork is dynamic. There are no set parameters that are based on the manufacture as ductwork is all custom made. I setup a routing preference based on our shop standards but nothing is written in stone I will a lot of the time override that standard based on field conditions. So if I want the fitting to remain in the condition I set it I insert a basic couple. This prevents the automatic update feature from set anything behind the couple from changing back to the default of the routing preference. I normally delete the couple and the duct reconnects with out affecting the fitting around it. In other words it doesn't update back to the default. Now that it does not do that anymore if I delete it and reconnect as you show, it updates and does the very thing I was trying to prevent. So as a result I have to leave all the couples in place and it make for a very messy looking model.

[Martin__Schmid]

@smurck - understood, I was responding to the issues @MikeMcGinn-PACE raised re: fabrication elements, which, incidentally, don't have the issues you mention regarding fittings reverting back to their default.. whether piping or sheet metal.

[smurck]

Hi Marton I agree the Fabrication element do not have this issue. I have developed over 100 Revit families for detailing in Revit. I prefer the automation I get from base Revit. I have been developing Ductwork programs for over 35 years dating back to the early 80's. I still download but we spend more time in design and revising then we do with the download. I can design faster and more accurate with what I am doing. It is based on the fabrication as I started this before Revit had the fabrication ductwork. Down loading can be done very quickly by tracing in autocad.
This is what I tell people. Revit want s to be Revit. The fabrication Cadduct is AutoCAD superimposed over Revit. If those fittings functioned like a Revit family, and I could put them in routing preference I would be all over it. But they don't and I can't.

[Martin__Schmid]

Hi @smurck - I'd be interested to discuss w/ you further if you are willing to make yourself available.  I'd like to understand a bit about what you feel you're able to accomplish by using Routing Preferences that you can't achieve with setting up the Service Template to define what fittings you want to route in what conditions... and in what ways you find using Fabrication elements don't work like Revit families that slow you down.  Using the Fabrication elements, there is no need to re-trace in Autocad, as the data can go straight to our CAM product to prepare the download.  

[smurck]

I would love to have that discussion. I mastered the Fabrication before I went to Revit. We are 100% CAMduct here at Master and we love it.
I have a meeting 10:30 this morning I can be available at around noon central time. Or most day I finish here at 10 AM central time.
Thanks Stephen

[Martin__Schmid]

@smurck - I just sent you a direct message.... 

You should see it above:

[joseph.pramod]

please Restore auto healing property of Duct or pipe after deleting any components.

This creates lot of problem while modeling.

Or please help me how to restore this function back like Revit 2020.

Email me at joseph.pramod@stantec.com

Thank you.

[Martin__Schmid]

hi @awuPVMND  - thanks for posting.  The underlying change was actually related to solving a worksharing problem, and is described here: https://blogs.autodesk.com/revit/2020/04/15/revit-2021-worksharing-improvements-for-mep/

With fabrication parts especially, Revit has no idea what the intent is in a scenario where things are dragged together.  Even in 2020 (and prior), if you were to drag or trim two components together, a coupling will be inserted.  If the sum of the two pipe segments are shorter than the length defined on the part definition, and you want to 'merge' the pipes together, you can use the Optimize Lengths command.

[Martin__Schmid]

hi @joseph.pramod  - I presume you are referring to deletion of an in-line component like a valve?  this behavior unfortunately had to change due to some instability in worksharing as described here: https://blogs.autodesk.com/revit/2020/04/15/revit-2021-worksharing-improvements-for-mep/

The simplest solution at present is to use the trim tool to heal the pipes back together (for design elements), and for fabrication piping, if you don't want a coupling, after trimming, use the Optimize Lengths tool.

[khaled.aYU4N3]

Hi, for example, consider having over a hundred damper, that I need to delete from my model, so without the auto healing property, time will be lost in joining ducts, and what is revit if its not a tool of automation. Other ways should be found to cure this instability in worksharing instead of getting rid of a key feature.

all my best.

[BSchafer74]

Please do,

This adds a ton of extra time to my job to delete and reconnect thousands of joints that use to self fix.  I'm glad I', not the only person who was impacted by this "UPGRADE"... 

[adama]

I just came across this thread, after spending some time trying to figure out what was wrong with my database all of a sudden for a core functionality to suddenly stop working in a new project. This is a massive time sink when deleting things like tees, valves, dampers, and other in line items.

The workaround of using trim does not work with Fab Parts. If I delete a tee and there is a 1" gap between the pipes, the trim command will not stretch and join those pipes. It adds a coupling, a 1" long pipe, and another coupling. Leading me to erase everything, one of the two pipes (which has hangers that now give me errors) and redo a lot of work to get everything connected back together.

Very frustrated by this downgrade! Reverting this for only non-workshared models does nothing for me, I don't think I have ever done a project that was not workshared. Please add an option to use previous functionality. This is a massive hit to productivity for something that maybe came up once a week, if that, and could be solved by "please sync".

[brandon_livingstonVAPCW]

I too just came across this Downgrade!  This has increased my workload considerably.  After working with MEP parts for over 6 years I've never had issues with model syncing, and if we did, we always published our models.  I've had a number of coworkers working in the same model, but never had any issues.  PLEASE bring back auto-healing!