MEP Systems and Connections Across Linked Models

[jboehning]

It would be nice to have MEP connectors be available for connection in a linked model. Also, these connectors should be able to be added to a system or circuit. There are many projects where mechanical, electrical and plumbing are split into multiple models in various ways. It would be helpful to have the same system creation functionality across linked models.

[chuebner03]

@Martin__Schmid What about the the other billion dollar industries like foodservice?  Foodservice consultants are massive supporters of Revit and our industry has over 50,000 Revit families with MEP connector families and accurate MEP data. 

How are the MEP engineers that we work with on every project supposed to use that information? Every project.

We love Revit so we spend the time to make our families perfect so our schedules are perfect and all of that great data is lost because Revit doesn't allow Electrical, Pipe, Duct Connector families to be used with linked models.  We are ALWAYS a linked model for the MEP engineers and the Architects, all consultants are linked in to engineers and architects models.  And because we can't even get our own Family Category we are forced to use Specialty Equipment. 

Specialty Equipment isn't even able to be Copy/Monitored.

For anybody that wants to help the foodservice industry get their own category like a real consultant so you can eventually link to our electrical, plumbing, and mechanical connectors, please check out the link below.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-ideas/create-a-new-family-category-for-quot-foodservice-equipme...

I will share this Revit Idea with the rest of the foodservice industry, we are all for fixing MEP Connectors and linked models and our equipment contains electrical, mechanical and plumbing.

If Autodesk wants to bring the industry together then make is easier for Revit architects, engineers, and consultants to work together.  We work through linked models, we are our own businesses. While you are at it add more family categories, we are not all Specialty Equipment.

[c_mccartney_hawkins_co_nz]

Hi all,

Adding my support to this idea. One of the golden rules of "BIM" is to avoid duplication, both of elements, and the effort required to create and maintain them.

On many projects, the engineers are responsible for determining number and type of elements (ie air terminals, outlets etc) but the architect responsible for location (as well as generally modelling hosting elements such as walls and ceilings), so it makes sense that they exist in one place, with the ability to share control of that elements attributes, and connectors between links. 

Great idea so get onto it Autodesk!

[Mark.Friis]

In a Building you may many similar Apartments, each with similar static and MEP-Pipes and ducts. In order to work more effectively I only create one Family-Group for each apartment-typ and copy this group around in the model. I then keep these Family-Groups as groups in my model. If a change comes (and they often do), for instance the Owner now wants a shower in each Bathroom instead of a Bathtube, it is easy just to make this change for each apartment-type than in each apartment. Sadly these groups makes the Model really slow, and the MEP-Calculations doesnt work in groups. I cant create an assemply with the MEP-Stuff. I can though save each apartment-type and link it into the larger model, so it visually looks good and does´nt slow the the model down, beacuse its only links. Sadly I cant do any MEP-calculations across the the links and the Host model. So each change will have to done manually 😞 after placing the Groups and ungrouping them. Planing and designing a Building is an iterative process and changes will occur along the whole design process and thereby extend the worktime, this is garanteed! Connecting across models is fundamental.

[hobyrne.ca]

Thank you Mark.Friis for sharing your insights and providing yet another reason why linked elements across models should be connectible. It was interesting to hear how you conduct your MEP workflows in a common situation. We often get so many changes throughout the design process, whether owner-driven, code-driven, or simply from the work of all the other disciplines. Where there are multiple symmetries throughout the project they must be exploited, and I believe Revit could be improved to better identify and work with these symmetries. With model groups being cumbersome and having to be linked in the main model to have it run more efficiently is yet another good reason to have the linked element connectors across models working seamlessly.

[aaron_bridwell]

Hate to be that guy but Bentley's AECOsim and it's previous version Bentley BIM allows for circuiting, plumbing connections and HVAC connections across referenced aka linked models.  Seems like Autodesk could likewise solve this issue as it a major problem in Revit! 

[paavo.idman]

The ability to connect to product family connectors from a linked model would be nice, but there should also be a connector type for MEP networks from one model to another. So when e.g. a duct or a pipe line continues from one model to another all the calculation data can be shared between the models. For those interested, this type of a thing has been used for a long time in ACAD + MagiCAD for ACAD world. "Connection node" is used as a name for these where MEP networks span many different DWGs.

MEP networks don't usually follow the logical borders of the different parts of a building or a group of buildings. So when we are using network balancing (flow and pressure loss calculations from for example MagiCAD for Revit) we need the full networks to be in one model for the calculations to work. Which means that usually we can't divide the MEP models in the same way as architects or other disciplines do according to the logical building parts/sections.

This is of course a problem only in larger projects where dividing the project into several different models is a must to keep the performance and size of the models reasonable. For now we have to split the models according to discipline (e.g. ventilation as its own model, heating&cooling as its own model etc.), but would be nice to have the option to split the models according to different building parts if we ever get those "connection nodes" in Revit.

[trey.ruiz]

This is also a significant issue on campus wide projects.  Several buildings can be served by a central plant and recreating the kVA from the separate models is not possible, as all of their Demand Factors must be considered together as a whole.

For example, for those Demand Factors with a "Calculation method" that are "by quantity", you would be required to re-created every individual load from all models served by the central plant model, to correctly calculate the Estimated Demand.  For systems as complex as hospitals, there are many separate Demand Factors that are "by quantity".

[andrew.davisEH3ZY]

Any feedback from Autodesk on this topic?  Do we know if it's been added to the REVIT roadmap?  This is a key feature needed for all out REVIT projects.

[graham.killin]

I also want to add my support for this topic

[curtisridenour]

maybe in 2024? this would make my job much easier.

[BSzilagyi]

@curtisridenour  you do not have to wait anymore. This is one of the new fetures of MagiCAD for Revit 2023: 

https://help.magicad.com/mcrev/2023/EN/new_features_2.html

[trey.ruiz]

The MagiCAD tool looks phenomenal, unfortunately in this application, it appears to be just for mechanical duct systems.  Electrically, we still need the ability to add electrical connector loads between models and preserve the demand factor calculations.

[aaron_bridwell]

We solved this problem by changing to Bentley BIM design suite of tools. After waiting and working with Autodesk to make this happen it became obvious that it was not possible in Revit.

[chuebner03]

MagiCAD is not a solution to this issue, it is a workaround for MagiCAD users only.

And telling Revit users to use Bentley tools is petty unhelpful, if you don't like Revit then maybe you should stop posting on the Revit forums.

[aaron_bridwell]

Not that I don't like Revit, but it is extremely frustrating that Autodesk is not as responsive to global issues that plague their products.

[paavo.idman]

Like BSzilagyi mentioned MagiCAD has added support for ventilation connection nodes between Revit models. They should be adding this feature also for piping in the future versions. And I believe for electrical discipline also.

But of course this doesn't help those who don't use MagiCAD...

[alaa.farhat]

Good day guys , speaking about this issue that we face from Electrical engineering side ,i had to to duplicate families from one model to another ( copy/Monitor) since i have linked a model to another just to obtain the full load of a circuit and add it to the Panel that exists in the second model , but the problem that each time the any changes occured on the load from Model 1 , the copy monitored family isn't updated , 

i need to find a way ( Dynamo, or any other mean) to apply the changes occuring on the parameter of this family(Connector) and apply it to the copy monitored family( Connector) ,

i had been looking how should i read the input from the family in the link model and apply without any luck

can anyone help

Thanks

[BSzilagyi]

Dear @alaa.farhat , I think if you are using the Copy/Monitor feature, do not forget to check a Coordination Review dialog, where you can follow the updated of a C/M-ed element: 

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2020/ENU/Revit-C...

[alaa.farhat]

Thank you for the reply @BSzilagyi , i am not sure the coordination review will do the trick , since the changes are for the values in a specific parameter not a drafting parameters or changing position , what I mean ( the first value would be like 14 , then if the value changed to 22) ,the coordination review wont give me any notice for any value changing , 

please i am sharing my script that i have wrote on Dynamo, can someone please review , I need one or two more nodes to get the value needed and add it to the family existing on the model 

[Caed9]

I don't know if in the past this wasn't a feature, but in Revit 2023 you can Copy monitor MEP fixtures. Not Sure if it works the same as with copy monitor levels though.