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Shared Coordinates Problem

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Message 1 of 12
mairh_tsek
5585 Views, 11 Replies

Shared Coordinates Problem

Hello,

 

I have always a probelm with the coordinates.

 

I start a new Revit file-SITE  and I link the CAD file with the survey   (it is georeferenced) , and after I acquired coordinates.

If I select the link file, in the properties, Shared Site: DefaultLocation

 

I wanted also to link in Revit the CAD file with the contour lines ( it is also georeferenced). I linked as Origin to origin and it came in wrong position compared to the CAD survey file. (Normally they should be in the same position? ). 

Also, the coordinates for a point between AutoCAD and Revit are different.

 

 

If I link the CAD Contour lines selecting -Auto By shared Coordinates. I take the following message (see image) but the Cad came in the correct position. If I select the both CADs in the properties, Shared Site: DefaultLocation.

 

 

After link the Revit file with the project as Origin-Origin and publish Coordinates.

So I have the Cads with  Shared Site: DefaultLocation.

And the Revit Link with Shared Site: Internal (current)

 

Am I doing somethinng wrong with the processus?

 

 

Thank you!

 

11 REPLIES 11
Message 2 of 12
SteveKStafford
in reply to: mairh_tsek

Sounds fine. The names it applies to the locations afterward are default names. When you acquire coordinates from the first file Revit understands where that file's World Coordinate System (WCS) origin is. The Survey Point moves to mark that location when it is clipped, that's why it is so far away afterward.

 

When you link the second file and use By Shared Coordinates the message is Revit confirming that it does not recognize having a relationship, it doesn't, with the file but it will use the WCS origin to place it correctly. That's important and correct.

 

When you Save your project Revit will probably prompt you to Save the changes to the DWG file. Choose the bottom answer, Disable Positioning. You don't need Revit to create a User Coordinate System in that file, which is what clicking Save will do.

 

After linking DWG files this way I usually click on the Named Location button (properties) and choose Disable Shared Positioning. This way Revit does not ask me to save the changes to the file later.


Steve Stafford
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Message 3 of 12
mairh_tsek
in reply to: SteveKStafford

@SteveKStafford ,

 

'When you Save your project Revit will probably prompt you to Save the changes to the DWG file. Choose the bottom answer, Disable Positioning. You don't need Revit to create a User Coordinate System in that file, which is what clicking Save will do'

 

I chosed the first option, to save the changes, but after I went to AutoCAD file and I didn't notice any difference in the coordinates. Is it wrong? Normally the coordinates in the dwg file should have been changed?

 

After linking DWG files this way I usually click on the Named Location button (properties) and choose Disable Shared Positioning. This way Revit does not ask me to save the changes to the file later.' 

 

Do you choose the option that display in the image? To check if I understand correctly, each time that I make a change in Revit about the coordinates, the changes don't saved back in dwg file.

 

Thank you!

 
Message 4 of 12
SteveKStafford
in reply to: mairh_tsek

If you review the available Named UCS in the DWG file you'll probably find there is one named REVIT60-DefaultLocation. You can just delete it (right-click > Delete).

 

Yes that will disable the sharing with the DWG which prompts for saving the change to the DWG if it is moved.


Steve Stafford
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Message 5 of 12
mairh_tsek
in reply to: SteveKStafford

Thank you!

Message 6 of 12
ToanDN
in reply to: mairh_tsek

Save back to link files is meant for Revit links.  Doing it for a DWG is quite pointless since you are never be able to link a RVT back in a DWG.

Message 7 of 12
SteveKStafford
in reply to: ToanDN

Revit does that because we can export to DWG. The alternate UCS makes it possible, in AutoCAD, to create an external reference using an exported DWG file, from Revit, and position it according to that UCS. It's just about as rare as unicorns to actually need to do it though.


Steve Stafford
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Message 8 of 12
mairh_tsek
in reply to: SteveKStafford

I don't have yet understand why when I linked the second DWG Auto-Origin by Origin it went  in a wrong position compared to the CAD survey file (first linked file)

Also, the coordinates for a point between AutoCAD and Revit were different.

 

Normally I dont move the DWG I just aquire the coordinates from it, so why I take the message to save the new position? 

 

Thank you! 

 

 

Message 9 of 12
SteveKStafford
in reply to: mairh_tsek

When you use Acquire Coordinates Revit's Survey Coordinate System is adjusted so its origin is the same place as the source file's origin, based on where the file is placed in the Revit model. When you use Auto - Origin to Origin Revit attempts to place the origin of the linked file at its own Project Coordinate System origin, not the Survey Coordinate System.

 

Quite often DWG files have extents which Revit finds unacceptable and it uses Auto - Center to Center instead, regardless of what we selected. A message usually appears explaining that is what is happening. We don't have any control over that decision during the linking process. We have to reconcile the issue with the DWG itself prior to linking it.

 

When you link a second file after using Acquire Coordinates on the first file, use By Shared Coordinates if both DWG files are based on the same origin in AutoCAD. Revit will use the World Coordinate System origin of the second link to place it at the Survey Coordinate System origin (in Revit). That's what the message says/confirms if it works properly.

 

When the position, of the DWG file, has been saved and a Named UCS has been created in a DWG. If that file is then linked to Revit again later it won't respect the By Shared Coordinates selection. It will land in the wrong place. The Named UCS needs to be deleted for it to work again.

 

Another possible outcome is that the extents of the file is unacceptable to Revit during the linking process and it rejects the choice for By Shared Coordinates and uses Auto - Center to Center instead.

 

The reason that Revit will save a UCS to the DWG file is because one way to work with survey data is to bring the survey file into the Revit building model. When that is done it is necessary to move the site under the building so it is oriented correctly. That is easier than trying to select all the elements in the building and moving and rotating it. The Named UCS it wants to create is meant to allow us to export to DWG and set that Named UCS current before we create an external reference to our Revit export file, so they line up properly. That's assuming we export using the Project Coordinate System. It isn't necessary to use the Named UCS when we export using the Survey Coordinate System. They've allowed for both situations but most of the time we only use one of them.

 

This is one reason why I always use a Revit site model and reconcile the site relationship in that file. Then I link building models to the site model and move them around on the site. I think it is easier to keep organized and when changes occur it is much easier to reconcile moving a building(s) around. I can link the site model to the building later if I need to but I only ever move/manage the relationship in the site model.


Steve Stafford
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Message 10 of 12
mairh_tsek
in reply to: SteveKStafford

@SteveKStafford , 

Thank you a lot for your time! 

Message 11 of 12
achesterfield
in reply to: mairh_tsek

How do I reset this REVIT created thing in AutoCAD to UCS world?revit icon in cad file 2.pngrevit icon in cad file.png

Message 12 of 12

Just thought I had better shed some light on my comment above. I can NOT clear this content from my C3D file after it has had an exported file from REVIT attached to it as an EXTERNAL REFERENCE file. Thus, C3D absorbs the REVIT UCS content but there is no evidence of the UCS in the file. For a full understanding of the issue I am having is highlighted here below as I prepared this for Autodesk support. Why not post it here also! 

 

My workflow process:

STEP 1

 

CIVIL 3D File (Parent CAD file)

 

 

 

Content does not have any UCS saved or set. Thus WORLD UCS in use

 

This file is used initially as an underlay to the Revit file to acquire the coordinates in Revit. BUT is exported to AUTO CAD first. And all the units checked.

 

Has the survey content in it directly or attached as an xref

 

Units set to meters (in all xref files)

 

-dwgunits set to meters (This needs to be checked even when units are set to meters using the "units" command)

<---- THIS is an important step! Not everyone knows about this step. Need to check all files being linked into Revit

no projection system set (is left in the survey coordinates we received the data in)

 

A surface is generated of the existing ground line and shared to the cloud

 

 

 

STEP 2

 

Revit File

 

 

 

New template started where all origins are the same initially (internal origin = project base point =survey base point)

 

C3D file from STEP 1 above is attached to this file using LINKED CAD, Centre to Centre insert, Meters for units, Preserve, DO NOT Correct lines, DO NOT Align to view, Bring in at the SITE DATUM level, ALL Layer visible

 

Move the LINKED CAD file to the intersection of the A grid and the 1 Grid and rotate it so that the content is aligned to desired location under the Revit model (Note the intersection of A grid and 1 grid = project base point)

 

In the ribbon in Revit select "Acquire coordinates" and select the Linked CAD file.

 

Save the Revit file and choose "Disable shared positioning" from the pop up so that content is not written into the CAD file.

 

Bring in your LINKED Topography from the STEP 1 Above. (Note this will align perfectly)

 

Model new content in REVIT

 

Export your new MODEL from Revit using, 3D Solids, By SHARED Coordinates from a 3D view without any linked content.

 

 

 

STEP 3

 

CIVIL 3D File (Parent CAD file)

 

 

 

Attach as an external reference the exported file in the last line of STEP 2 above into this file.

<---- THIS is the PROBLEM step. If this file is used without "cleaning" the file of the UCS REVIT creates before it is attached to it will corrupt the parent file.

Create a NEW Surface in this file

 <---- THIS file absorbs the REVIT UCS instead of the World UCS.

Publish this new surface into the cloud to bring into REVIT

 

(Note no new UCS was created by the operator in this file. There is no need as the external reference file underlays it perfectly)

 

 

 

STEP 4

 

Revit File

 

 

 

Use LINKED Topography to bring in the NEW surface created in STEP 3 above.

<--- Note at this step the linked topography will NOT align as it is reading the REVIT content from the embedded external reference UCS file in step 3 above.

 

Once the parent file in STEP 1 above is corrupted there is no way back! It will not display the UCS file it has inherited from the exported Revit file in step 2 & 3 above. So you can NOT delete it. Even if you detach the xref it remains. Yet the REVIT UCS content is embedded in it! PLEASE prevent the REVIT UCS being shared into the parent file! OR give us a tool in either REVIT or AutoCAD to clear it. It is not fun having to recreate your C3D content in a clean file.

 

I ask you to try my steps above to see if this highlights the issue.

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