How to layer a composite wall with cold formed metallic framing with insulation in between the studs?

[ConstantineC]

If I want to use cold formed metallic structure, how do I structure the metallic stud layer if there is an insulation batten in between the studs?

The actual studs will be a structural frame system but the insulation is a layer of the composite wall

Do I need to adjust the thermal conductivity to match the insulation layer and also change the drafting hatch pattern ?

What if the insulation layer is thinner than the studs so there is another air cavity left?

What is the usual way?

[anze.kumar]

An option could be: If you are already in this detailed phase of design, I would actually use separate walls for different layer:

- 1.wall type = 2 layers of plaster board

-2.wall type: mineral wool insulation (then model the metalic stud separately with structural column tool and cut them out of the wall).

3.wall type: rigid insulation

4.wall type: vertical rail-

If you choose your option with composite wall, you could structure the wall with layer of wool insulation and then model the stud layers again "inside" the composite wall.

In the materials the "Metal Stud Layer" usually refers to metal studs with ventilation (your outer layer). If you have an insulation batten between the studs, the thermal conductivity of the insulation is the relevant one.

[ConstantineC]

Thanks, if I go with the composite wall and use insulation, I should`nt set it as Structural so to not show up in structural analytical model?

[barthbradley]

---

@ConstantineC wrote:

Do I need to adjust the thermal conductivity

---

Are you asking because you will be creating an energy model using detail elements?  

[ConstantineC]

At some point yes, will probably need to, for  the Global coefficient of thermal insulation for example.

Also now I just realized that not only the studs play a structural role but also the plywood/osb sheathing too. 

Normally they should be set to structure too right?

For the analytical structural model to be correct.

[anze.kumar]

In the case of composite wall, if you do NOT want this wall to show in the Analytical model, yes you shouldn't set it as Structural.

However if you are using the same model for Analytical design and drawings.. the way I practiced it would be

that I usually model the structural elements as separate types (for example, a wall that is Structural has its own type). In that case, you can control the Analytical model with these type of walls, and have control of outer in inner layers with separate elements.

In the material dialog, you should tick the appropriate structural material so that it "joins" correctly on edges when you are editing your drawings:

[ToanDN]

You are talking about two different Structures. 

If you select a wall and tick Structure box from properties, it becomes a structural wall and will show in structural analytical view. That is different than set layers in the wall type to strcture.

Layer functions in a wall type are mostly for wall cleaning up, wrapping, and filtering.

[anze.kumar]

Yes exactly, the Material dialog is something completely different and relevant only regarding the production of drawings and not analytical model. 

[ConstantineC]

@anze.kumar  You mean the structure property in the  composite wall layering does not show up in an analytical model?  

Only a full wall element can be set as structural which will include any inner layers?

[anze.kumar · Accepted solution]

Yes, only a full wall can be set as Structural and the visible in Analytical. 

Structure property in the  composite wall layering then dictates which material does the revit take to be the structural.

As far as I know, Revit does "know" that this Analytical wall has a structure of one structural layer and takes the appropriate material for analysis for Analytical wall - as far as you have the appropriate physical assests set in Material dialog

[ConstantineC]

Hi, I am coming back to this topic because I  think that the beam system does not cut though the wall insulation layer.  When I try to use the Cut tool, I cannot select both the Wall and the System. Doesnt work with individual beams either. You can see the hatch line of the insulation goes throgh the beam profile.

Is there a way to cut it with the beam system?