Generating PDF's - Best Method - Raster Vs Vector vs Sometihng else

[dtpeter2901]

I'm still tyring to figure out what this is still an issue. 

I'd like to be able to print all of my sheets with one method.

When I Generate pdfs's using bluebeam (same results with others pdf writers) I end up loosing linework for modeled objects.

When I generate them using Raster, I get all the linework, but it looks like junk.  (mainly becuase it's raster)

In prior versions, (pre 2016) I had results that weren't good, but were acceptable.

With 2016, they are no longer acceptable. 

So what's the best method for creating pdfs.

So I'm stuck with 2 bad options.  Either run the risk of randomly loosing information or prints that look like junk.

Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

Something happened with our Bluebeam drivers on a few computers where the output settings were dropped down to 72dpi... This was with the Bluebeam PS driver.

When you go to print out of Revit, click the Properties button for the Bluebeam PDF printer and then click the Advanced button at the bottom.

Make sure the Print Quality under Graphic is higher than 72dpi, we have ours set for 600dpi.  Under Postscript Options, make sure Postscript Output Option is Optimized for Speed.

When you "save as" when printing, make sure the resolution is set to 300 dpi or better.  If you don't see a place to change the resolution or image compression click the Advanced button.

[Keith_Wilkinson]

Gotta say, our PDF's look fine although granted I've not been running 2016.  Raster is never good and way too heavy in terms of file size.  Do DWF print okay?

Can you post an example PDF?

[dtpeter2901]

Here's an example of missing elements.

DPI is set to 600.

In the past I've had the same issue printing vector to Dwf.

Haven't tried it in a while, but on type of project my firm works on missing objects could cause major problems.  I can't risk that.

On a 2014 project I went thru every option on one sheet and printing pdf to raster was the only option that worked so that's the one I've stuck with.

[Keith_Wilkinson]

Do you have any transparency applied to your floor (or ceiling - not sure if we're looking down or up)?

[dtpeter2901]

No transparency applied.

It's a ceiling plan in a stair well and you're seeing the sprinkler pipe.

Well you're seeing it when I print raster, it doesn't display when I print vector.

[Keith_Wilkinson]

Is the sprinkler pipe above the ceiling level and if so what method have you used to make it visible? 

[dtpeter2901]

It's not above the ceiling it's under it.

The pipe is exposed. 

I'll Contend "What's the difference?"

Either way it's printing using raster and not printing via vector.

ie The thought of revit being "What you see is what you get" doesn't hold true.

[Keith_Wilkinson]

There's obviously something that is causing it not to print as a vector - a common cause is transparency which I why I asked.  The fact you can see the end of the pipe and the rest of it shows grey made me think it was above the ceiling.

I'm simply trying to understand the problem you are facing to try and offer other avenues.  If Revit routinely didn't print objects you would have heard a lot more about it so I'm thinking it's maybe something to do with how your file is set up, exactly what I can't say at this point.

Are there other rooms where the pipes don't print or are there other elements that don't print?  it would be good if it was possible to establish if there are any related factors.

Any chance you can post an extract of the model?  

[Keith_Wilkinson]

What I don't understand, in your raster version, if there is no transparency applied to anything why are we seeing a Fill Pattern through the pipe?

[dtpeter2901]

Here's what I can tell you.  When I've printed Vector, I routinly have missing object, lines and portions of fill patterns.  Been that way for a long time.

The examples from the previous post show 2 pdfs generated from the same view using all of the same VG settings and the same pdf creator.  Only difference is one was generated with Raster, the other generated with Vector. 

So again, my questions is why do I get 2 different results?

[Keith_Wilkinson]

Again, if there are any transparency settings then the vector output will ignore those.  This might be the ceiling set to have transparency, the pipe, it could be an override within the view, filter, category etc. 

Your view will look exactly how you want it when you view it in Revit and it will print exactly as you see it as a Raster as this will accept transparency settings but it WONT print correctly as a Vector.

I know you have said there are no transparency settings but I strongly suggest you double check everything to make sure, cause from where I'm sitting, if it was my file that's the first thing I'd be checking.

[dtpeter2901]

Checked transparancy.  Nothing is set to transparant.

Pipe is cutting thru the ceiling object.

Just ran into a slightly different issue on another project.

If you print Vector, The lineweight adjustments aren't applied.

If you print Raster they are.

So yes, I'm seeing issues with printing Vector... On more than one project, on more than one kind of view.

Only workaround I've heard of someone trying to use, was to print to DWF via Vector, and then print the DWF to PDF.  Not really a good solution when you have projects with 1000's of sheets.

Can't post models.  I can provide more examples.

[Keith_Wilkinson]

when you say lineweight adjustments, are you talking about using the Linework tool or something else?

The attached PDF shows walls rather than pipes and it prints exactly as expected.  Unfortunately unless it's recreateable or you can post an example (even if it's an extract of a project that shows the same behaviour) I don't really know what else to suggest.  

Someone else might have come across the problem and can advise but I'm out of ideas.

[dtpeter2901]

So I've attached 3 pdfs of the same view.

Verified there were no transparancy's set.

I made no adjustments to the view between prints.

Used the same print settings.  Only print setting that was adjusted was switching to Raster from Vector.

One show the print with Vector, One with Raster and a screen shot.

Notice the difference in lineweights.

What you see is not always what you get.

Thanks for you willingness to help Keith.  Please don't take my responses the wrong way.  I'm just trying to figure out how I can confidently generate pdfs that print the way they appear on screen.

[Keith_Wilkinson]

How are you adjusting the line thickness for the sprinkler heads? 

(btw I don't deny you are having a problem I'm just trying to understand what you are doing to see if there is anything in that that's causing the problem, as I said previously unless it's possible to recreate it it can be hard to offer ideas for a solution).

[dtpeter2901]

I've adjusted the VG for the "Sprinkler"Category for that view.

I've been doing Revit stuff for 10 yrs and creating quality pdfs has always been a problem.

The usually response I got was "Revit Doesn't support PDFSs"

That was back in 2006 after I downloaded the "Autodesk Revit Pdf Generator" from their website.

[RDAOU]

@dtpeter2901

Did you consider that the issue is not in Revit but with your hardware? or OS you are using? Known issues with missing elements (not just in Revit) with PDF vector printing

1. Operating system and Drivers updates...example: Older versions of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 have issues with Windows Aero Theme and are reported to interfere with the print driver UI...switching to a normal theme fixes issue...updating to latest services packs and having all patches istalled does too
2. Graphic accelleration hardware or its driver faulty (might want to try switching it off)
3. Insufficient and/or low memory and full temp
4. Printing a low raster quality resolution using Vector processing (can pixelize halftones and even wipe them out at times)
5. ...countless other reasons

Just to avoid any doubts; I tried to regenerate a sample model to replicate uses; even added in some trieals transparency and shading and used several variations of resolution and PDF Vector printing worked PERFECTLY the way it should..So as the guys said if it would have been a Revit issue; it would have been officially recognized as a Revit bug but as majority of the users aren't having this issue with PDF Vector processing; then it is something related to either the system hardware, the OS or the PDF printer

Did you try printing elsewhere not on your system? at a client's maybe or one of those prof. printing services offices...If you cannot upload the file; for the sack of solving the issue you can at least try to upload a partial model...delete everying and just leave that room!

This is a 72 DPI print using Vector Processing (did 12 prints with res ranging between 600 DPI to 72 DPI - no vanishing elements observed)

Im using Acrobat DC and Revit 2014

Transparency has been applied to the pipe

tried both with and without graphic overide - halftone and normal

tried with anti-aliasing and without as well as replacing halftones with thin line

The following is the worst results I got..

[Keith_Wilkinson]

Nothing really to add to that... 

[dtpeter2901]

Ok so for kicks, just to check my own mental sanity, I did this on 2 separte workstations.  Got the same results, again.

Both Workstations have the most current version of Windows 7.

Both have the most current version/build of Revit 2016

Niether are using a windows Areo theme

They've got all the latest service packs for Window, Revit and BlueBeam.

One is running a new nVidia Quadro K2200 (as certified by Autodesk).

One is running an almost 3yr old nVidia GTX 650 (not Certified).

Tried both with Hardware acceration on, and off.

Temp drives are less that 25% of the 500gb available.

Both have 32gb of Ram to Start, 20+ avaiable of phsyical, 64gb available of Virtual

I even tried using an older laptop to see if I could get something different.

That was done using PDF Exchange.  Same results.

Results were always the same.  Vector didn't print the same as raster or use the correct linewights I've assigned via the VG.

This doesn't happen on every view.  Views that are graphic intensive are usually the ones that have the issues.

This isn't the first time this has come up.  This isn't and isolated incidient.

http://www.revitcity.com/forums.php?action=viewthread&thread_id=20308

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-mep/revit-mep-2014-pdf-vector-prints-amp-hard-prints-missing-de...

http://revitize.blogspot.com/2008/08/notes-on-printing.html

http://www.revitforum.org/mep-general/9999-what-you-see-not-allways-what-you-get.html

The only thing I haven't tried to look at was the "Low Quality Raster using Vector". I'm not even sure where you look for that or what that has to do with line weights.

The only "Solution" that isn't really a solution and still results in printing errors, just not as many; is to create dwfs and then print those as pdfs from Design Review.

So it w