Fix Bug - Family Geometry broken when rotated

[Anonymous]

When rotating family geometry, it often breaks the whole assembly. There's no apparent logical reason for this, it just makes it really hard to fix broken or develop new families. Please fix this issue. Rotating things should not break them, especially when using the "disjoin" button.

I can say with certainty that Autodesk has broken many families in America. Let's stop the social damage.

[gsucci]

Most likely your geometry needs more constraints, either locked dims, or reference planes.

Attach the family so people can troubleshot it...

Regards

Gio

[barthbradley]

..."Always Vertical"?

Nix that. I see that it is a family you are talking about. My suggestion would be to nest the "rotatable" elements into the family. However, you may find other issues rotating it about the axis. Might need to do a nest in the nest. 

This is where I'm going (courtesy of @Alfredo_Medina😞 

http://planta1.com/blog/rotating-an-object-in-3-different-axes-by-points/

[Anonymous]

Here is the family, I took the bottom part and tried to rotate it. I've already recreated the family from scratch, so this is only for an example among many.

However, I don't believe "naked" goemetry should be locked geometrically in order to not be morphed when rotated. Geometry should be rotateable in any direction without a deformation, especially if the "disjoin" button is checked. I believe this is a n error in the way that Revit handles geometry, unless there is a clear explanation why the disjoin does not work and that there would be a clear way to not abtain these undesirable results.

[Anonymous]

@barthbradley I got excited there for a second, but disabling this did nothing. The geometry is stil all wrong after a disjoin rotation.

[Alfredo_Medina]

The family is made incorrectly. But I don't think that is the issue with the rotation. The issue is, I think, that the family is hosted by a wall. If you try to rotate it, it won't find a host, unless you rotate the wall, too.

Why I think it is made incorrectly? Look at this image. The space below the drinking fountains is supposed to be free of obstacles, in case someone in a wheel chair wants to use it. This image below shows, on the left, how the drinking fountains should be. On the right, how this family looks when it is inserted into a wall.

[Anonymous]

Indeed, the familiy is crap. I've fixed it already.

But this is more about why Revit geometry reacts this way. If I do adisjoin rotate, it should disjoin it from it's previous association to the wall and become space neutral. I gave it a new reference plane to abide to, but it gets broken when rotated.

This seems like a bug to me, what kind of software ruins your geometry when you tell it to rotate based on a new reference plane?

[Alfredo_Medina]

I don't think it is a problem in the software. As you have seen, the family does not even load properly in a wall, so I would not be surprised if other things get broken when you try to modify this family. 

[Anonymous]

Yes, but that argument should be invalid since I used disjoin:

Disjoin: Select Disjoin to break the connection between the selection and other elements before rotating

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2015/EN...

Othewise, there should be a way to rotate things without refferencing their original reference context.

[Sahay_R]

With complex geometry - divide and rule. Split it up into nestable families, nest them into a parent family. Associate parameters. You get better control over the assembly without worrying about the geometry breaking when you try to manipulate the family. Disjoin etc etc are useful for small and simple families.

[Alfredo_Medina]

The Disjoin button does not eliminate the host. For example, imagine a door in plan view. Can you rotate the door if you activate disjoin?

[Anonymous]

I feel like I'm the crazy guy who thinks this is a bug and everybody else is beyond accepting this bug.

We deserve the dignity of rotating geometry, this is a modelling software, not an intellectual torture device from the future.

[Anonymous]

@Alfredo_Medina We're talknig aabout the family editor here, not dealing with families hosted in families. To answer your question, yes you can rotate a door in the family editor. You can do so in elevation or in plan.

You can model somthing in plan, select a new reference plan and rotate the same model element in elevation.

[Alfredo_Medina]

If you are referring to rotating an object, like a box, in the family editor, then you the box first in a separate family, then nest it, then rotate it. 

[Anonymous]

Sorry Alfredo, that workflow is unaceptable and I am not convinced that it would achieved the proper result, on top of being incredibly overcomplicated for a user wanting to rotate raw geometry in the family editor.

As stated before, I am convinced that should be treated as a bug and a totally unwanted behavior, not sometyhing to be excused from Autodesk.

[barthbradley]

@Anonymous: It's okay to be crazy; just don't be insane. Three competent people are telling you that nesting is the way to go. Just give it a try. It ain't difficult.  I promise. 

Good luck. 

[Anonymous]

I tried grouping with no luck. I can't understand how nesting into a seperate family would work for this. The workflow does not make sense in my head both in terms of the technical steps and how it would solve this.

The sentence from Alfredo also confuses me: "If you are referring to rotating an object, like a box, in the family editor, then you the box first in a separate family, then nest it, then rotate it."

[Alfredo_Medina]

Sorry, in my previous sentence, I see that I omitted a verb, which makes the sentence sound weird. Here I am writing the sentence again, with new words in uppercase.

I meant : If you are referring to rotating an object, like a box, in the family editor, then you CREATE the box first in a separate family (FAMILY 1) then nest it (INTO FAMILY 2), then rotate it."

Of course you could rotate a box directly in the same family, only if the box is just a dumb box with no parameters, and only in the plane that is parallel to the sketch that was used to make the extrusion. If the box is supposed to keep responding to parameters such as width, depth, height, even if it is rotated, the best approach is to do that box in Family 1, load it into Family 2, and rotate it in Family 2.

I hope that helps. There is no bug in this, in my opinion. It's just the rules of the family editor.

Do I wish rotations would be simpler? yes, of course.

[ToanDN]

You nested family is a face based and you hosted it on a face of the wall in the parent family.  How would you expect it to rotate?  The only rotation available for a face based family is around the Z axis of the hosted face, meaning you open an elevation looking straight on to the element and rotate it.  That's it.

[Sahay_R]

If it's rotating geometry that you want, then copy the geometry into a family template that is not hosted to anything. Better still, break up your drinking fountain into component families and nest them into a generic model template.

Trust me - there is no bug. You have received numerous very well educated opinions on your conundrum as well as multiple workable solutions. Take one and run with it.