creative ideas for more efficient way to build the existing model

[HVAC-Novice]

All my projects are remodels of existing buildings. My scope can be Architectural, mechanical, plumbing or electrical or sometimes just lighting. 

In most cases there is no existing Revit model and I find myself spending a lot of time modeling the existing building to the required detail. Often there are existing PDF plans I use to trace. I also take spherical pictures and regular pictures of relevant items to correct the existing model. I try to not over-model and get just enough detail for the scope required. But this still is a very manual and often mundane process. That takes time away from the actual creative design work. And it is boring - I rather sweat to solve the most impossible design problem. 

Are there any more automated ways to build the existing model with less time and/or more accuracy? Someone was talking about buying a Lidar scanner. But this still will require manually building the model. I actually never used a point cloud to build a model, but suspect it mainly avoids manually taking pictures and measuring all details. I still would have to model floors, walls, windows etc. I know modern Lidar systems don't require the reference spheres anymore. Might be nice if there was one that automatically drives all over each level. 

A point cloud probably is a good start. Maybe there is some AI tool to make the existing model building a bit more automated. Like it could build a wall and insert doors and windows. I then just have to edit the type of wall (drywall vs. masonry) if needed. is there something like that? Maybe there is something coming up?

Does anyone know of better methods? I suspect in many firms they will have lower level staff do the grunt work. But this isn't an option here. 

[SteveKStafford]

I think the short answer is No. There is no shortcut to creating existing documentation that will tell the necessary story for your projects. Laser Scanning is "smarter" field measurement. It means you don't have to go back to the site to measure something you forget...as long as you spend the time scanning "everything". A point cloud can help create the existing model but it doesn't come without cost/time either.

There is the Scan to BIM application that might help you get things done quicker but your mileage will vary depending on your scope of work.

[HVAC-Novice]

We do have ReCapPro in our suite. Did you or someone else apply the described "scan to BIM"  process? 

From your link: " Other tools automatically analyze the point cloud to organize the geometry of the building or site. Autodesk ReCap Pro  reality-capture software interprets point-cloud data and makes it usable in Autodesk Revit .

Once a point cloud is uploaded into design software such as Revit, some data-cleaning oversight can filter out errors, like a reflection on a window interpreted as a real object or a builder that briefly walked through the frame. " 

Does the above description mean it can automatically create walls etc. (with the need to clean up), or will it basically just be a point-cloud in Revit and one has to manually trace along the points? 

[SteveKStafford]

I haven't used Scan to BIM. It started out as a separate company and Autodesk acquired it IIRC. The general concept is that it is able to interpret points and collections of points as "things" and create Revit elements like walls, pipes, duct etc. How well it does that is the million dollar question. It's probably worth a look to see if it is a good fit for your work.

[RSomppi]

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@HVAC-Novice wrote:

All my projects are remodels of existing buildings. My scope can be Architectural, mechanical, plumbing or electrical or sometimes just lighting. 

In most cases there is no existing Revit model and I find myself spending a lot of time modeling the existing building to the required detail.

I try to not over-model and get just enough detail for the scope required.

Are there any more automated ways to build the existing model with less time and/or more accuracy?

Does anyone know of better methods? I suspect in many firms they will have lower level staff do the grunt work. But this isn't an option here. 

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Are these mostly small residential projects, large commercial/industrial projects or somewhere in between?

If you are doing design work, what is the LOD requirement for the projects? Do they vary from project to project?

Do these projects require Revit and 3D coordination with other consultants?

Do your contracts include a premium for providing accurate existing conditions? If not, maybe you need to dummy down that information.

It sounds like you may be low man in a small office. The one that gets the "grunt"/existing conditions work. I think you need to have this discussion with management if existing conditions are that painful for you. Maybe you are putting too much emphasis on being accurate.

I've done a lot of reno work on the MEP side and have had to manually measure large mechanical rooms and have worked with scans. Scans are probably the best way to ensure accuracy for the existing/demo work but may be overkill for your projects. I've done projects in Revit where the 3rd dimension was irrelevant. Rough CAD backgrounds and best guesses got the jobs done with little verification of existing conditions.

There is no simple answer with the information provided. Too many variables.

[handjonathan]

Hi @HVAC-Novice 

Thanks a lot for posting your question to the forums!   Have the solutions suggested by @SteveKStafford @RSomppi1 helped with your issue?
 
We look forward to hearing back from you with more information so we can help you as a community! 

[HVAC-Novice]

I work for the owner (local government) and we do design-bid-built (as opposed to the more common design-build private industry). So the detail level really has to be good enough to be biddable and not create change orders. And making the existing model more detailed gives me better reference to not make me miss information during design.

Projects mainly are remodels or just partial (i.e. only lighting retrofit) in smaller office areas, fire stations, police stations, operations buildings inc. vehicle garages and repair shop. So it really is a variety and a project could just be lighting, or Architectural, and the full MEP. I once designed a large metal building addition to an existing building, but typically projects are smaller than that. I also do Construction admin for my projects. That tactually is good since I quickly learned (the hard way) to design that doesn't require change orders or creates many questions. 

Over the years I ended up spending more time upfront since that saves more time and change orders later on. For example, in an HVAC project I need the structural elements to be accurate to not run ducts into beams etc. For lighting I need to know if a partition wall is glass so I don't put  light switch on glass wall. For lighting I also place major work surfaces (desks, counters) to have a reference where lighting really is important. Recently I also started taking spherical pictures of the spaces. that takes quite some time with the phone, but it really helps me to see what is going on in a space when I do the actual design. We use ACC and I start with an existing plan set and place the cameras on the sheet at the location pictures were taken (in ACC on my phone). that all is effort, but helps me to keep design quality high and prevents me to change the design later on when I realize there sis something in the way. Years ago I started out with more dummed down existing model, but I learned that is penny wise and pound foolish since I then ended spending more time in design or in construction management. Every time something turns out to be a problem in construction, I then double down to be more detailed in design. My projects usually are very good with not requiring field changes or change orders. One avoided change order easily pays for a few dozen hours of design time. 

Our current plans on PDF usually are accurate enough. I don't worry about 1" difference. Sometimes a wall is 1-2' different or a rogue wall was added. But this can easily be measured with a laser distance meter. 

Sometimes existing PDF plans are really bad. quality can be low, not much detail, or things don't make sense in 3D (apparently in AutoCAD or on paper, you can make 2 floors that only fit on top of each other on paper, but not in real World). I also sometimes have to insert multiple PDF (i.e. architectural ceiling plans and separate lighting plans) to model one existing view. Those different discipline plans also often don't match up and may not reflect actual installation. 

After field surveying, I need to edit my existing model to implement what I found. 

I was hoping with a laser scanner (that also takes pictures while scanning) I could eliminate the manual taking of my spherical pictures. I also hope to avoid having to edit my model after field survey since the point cloud already should make it accurate the first go around. Having some simpler (or semi-automated) ways to actually build he building would be a bonus.