Columns prevent perpendicular beams joining

[vicktor1111111]

Hi chaps, what's up, how are you doing. My problem is that when I join perpendicular beams as shown on the picture number 1 they remain unconnected because of the columns which support them on the corners. Strangely enough they become partly connected when I increase the gap between them and the column(picture number 2) and they become completely connected right after Revit says it cant keep column and the beam connected (picture number 3). This occurs when the gap reaches 1 1/2" (picture number 4). 

Could you please tell me how can I solve this problem? Thank you very much for your help.

[barthbradley]

Share your file.  We'll look at it.  

[Anonymous]

Make your column's top offset be the depth of your beams.  You may have to pull back the beams some then trim them.

Usually I have my columns go floor to floor and the beams I 3D Connect top of column to top of column. Making them continuous from one side of the building to the other is not how it is built.

Also, pay attention to your analytical nodes...that will show how the structure is trying to connect to each other.

[vicktor1111111]

Unfortunately I can't attach the file I'm working in, cause the patron would object against the project of his building being divulged but I'll copy the problematic detail to a new file and post it. Thanks for advise.

[barthbradley]

Just save out the portion with the column and beam and send that one. We don't need proprietary content.  

[ToanDN]

Select the column, right click the top blue round grip and disallow join, then miter the beams. But the proper way to build them are extend the column full height and stop the beams at the edges of the column.

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

@vicktor1111111: my above post reply is in response to your private email inquiry.  

[vicktor1111111]

Thank you very much, here is my file.

[ToanDN · Accepted solution]

Here you are.  Right click on the beam end grip and disallow join.  See screencast in a few minutes.

[vicktor1111111]

Thank you very much for your help. It has worked.

[vicktor1111111]

Thank you very much for your reply, it was almost the solution, only in my case I had to do this with grips on beams not on columns.

[vicktor1111111]

Thank you very much for your reply, but unfortunately it didn't help. As ToanDN explained to me I had to right click on the blue handles of the adjoining beams and chose "disallow join".

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

@vicktor1111111: I cannot replicate in a new project. But I can replicate in your project. My solution is to constrain the Column Top Level to a level that is independent from the Beam Level, and then control Column height by changing the elevation of the Top Level. The Beam Level and the Column Top Level can contact each other without incident. 

...BTW: did you notice your Warnings? 

[vicktor1111111]

Thank you very much for your help. Although your suggestion doesn't work at once, if I use it and then follow the advice of ToanDN, I have much a better result. ToanDN says to right-click blue handles on the ends of the beams and choose "disallow join" in the drop down list. This results thus:

But if I, as you recommend to do, previously constrain the column to the higher level and set a corresponding top offset and then follow ToanDN's advise, I have even better result, without the joint lines:

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

You can also use the Join Geometry tool to remove the visible edge between the column and the beam. 

BTW, I said nothing of a Top Offset. I said use a TOP LEVEL for the columns that is not the same Level the beams are hosted to.  

[vicktor1111111]

Yes, indeed, the result with join command is the same as after using your's and ToanDN's recommendations together. Thank you very much, again.

[vicktor1111111]

The only question which torments me now concerning this problem is why, unlike in walls, in beams I have to disallow join instead of allowing it so that they got joined. Could you please explain it to me.

[barthbradley · Accepted solution]

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@vicktor1111111 wrote:

The only question which torments me now concerning this problem is why, unlike in walls, in beams I have to disallow join instead of allowing it so that they got joined. Could you please explain it to me.

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I was able to mitigate the automatic column-beam join behavior by using the method I described above. I did not need to toggle Disallow Join at every single beam corner.   Also, like I said, I did not have the same issue in a new project.  So, my guess is the you did something non-conventional in your Project.  However, I have seen your issue posted about before, so I guess it isn't that unusual.  Try posting the question on the Structural Forum. Most of us here are on the Architectural side.  

Lastly, if you feel I was helpful, please feel free to give me a lil' green check mark.  You can give more than one.  

[vicktor1111111]

Thank you very much. Sure. Do you mean press a best solution button? Only maybe I'll ask ToanDN the same question. If he is unable to explain, I'll ask it on construction forum indeed. And I'll try to find out what was wrong in my project.