Frame generator - features in frame members don't update when changing member

[Timothy.kane]

Overview

When using Frame generator if a frame member is changed to a different frame member within the same family using "Edit with Frame Generator" any additional features (holes) do not update correctly to what is asked for in the family table.

Details

I have setup a custom frame member for use in frame generator.  The frame profile that I setup was for aluminium profiled extrusion that is very commonly used for building frames. For these frames there are different methods for connecting the individual members together, some of which require holes to be drilled in the extrusion for access to bolt heads or fasteners to be inserted into the extrusion.

When I setup the profile I added some extra features (holes) to the end of the profiles and in the iParts table I created several different rows for different members suppressing or computing the appropriate holes to cover a range of different orientations/ positions to join frame members together.  The process flow I used to create the part is as follows;

• Create extrusion from profile (no holes added yet)
• Generate iPart.
• Author (but not publish) part for structural shape.
• Add holes a set distance from each end of the frame member (add individual holes as separate features such that holes can be controlled independently) for the various different end conditions required to join frame members together in the frame assembly.
• Edit the iPart table by suppressing or computing holes for different configurations to give different end conditions of the members.
• Publish the part.

When I look at the family table for the member, in content centre editor, it shows the different holes and correctly shows "true" or "false" next to the corresponding holes.  When adding a frame member to my frame I can choose the different frame members from the 'size' list and it correctly show the holes as per my design/ family table.  However if I then try to change a frame member (using "Edit with Frame Generator") it does not correctly update the hole locations as per my design/ family table.

If I go back into "edit with Frame Generator" it does show the correct family member for the new 'size' that I want but the holes in the frame member are not correct.

In the attached screen shot there are two members running left to right.  Both these frame members were generated from the same family but using a different 'size'. As can be seen the front member has two holes added to the left end of the frame member but the other one does not. These holes were added to the frame member automatically based on the ipart/ family table that I had set up (i.e. I did not have to go into the part file for the member to add the holes). This is correct to how I want the frame members to behave.  The issues comes when I try to update the frame member by choosing a different 'size' to that it gives a different hole configuration (base on the ipart/ family table) at the end of the profile.

Is there a way to make it work such that if I change frame members it will update the holes accordingly?

Many thanks in advance for any help.

[chandra.shekar.g]

Hi @Timothy.kane,

Can you please provide detailed steps and sample assembly to reproduce issue?

Along with steps, it would be great if screenshots or video recordings are provided.

Please make sure that files are non confidential.

Thanks and regards,

[Timothy.kane]

@chandra.shekar.g Thank you for your reply.  You have asked for detailed steps.  Please can you advice further which steps you want details of.  Is it authoring a frame member or adding and changing a frame member to a frame using the frame generator environment?  Many thanks

[AlexFielder]

The problem you describe sounds like one of two things:

1) There's a bug in the program. (not entirely unlikely)

or

2) The iPart filenames are not independently/differently named within your part table.

I suspect it maybe more likely to be the latter since you would see similar behaviour within the regular Content Center if you have attempted to update the template part without having either removed the generated part from your Content Center folders or ran the "Update Standard Parts" tool within the Content Center toolset.

In my experience both the above steps are sometimes required to get the new parts to display properly.

[Timothy.kane]

Alex, Thank you for your comments. I hope to look at this in the next few days.

[Timothy.kane]

Hi @AlexFielder.  Thank you again for your comments.  I have had the chance to look at this again.

Each frame member does have a unique filename.  The default filename seems to be made up from Standard, Member Name, sequential number.  Due to the sequential number the parts must have a unique number (note that the sequential number starts from 1 and increments up irrespective of which frame member I have selected. For example the filenames go BOSCH 45x45-L1 000000001, BOSCH 45x45-L1 000000002,BOSCH 45x45-LR2 000000003 etc. etc.).

I have attached an image "Inventor Default FileName.png" which shows this.  The filename is also the same as the Display name be default. I have added a second image "Inventor Family Table.png" which shows how the family table has been setup.  The member name for each row has a different name depending on the hole configuration.

When I try to change the frame member using "Edit with Frame Generator" it creates a new member with the correct (updated) member name and the next sequential number but does not update the actual member for the correct hole configuration. E.g. if I edit the frame member from 45x45-L1 to 45x45-LR2 the filename (and display name) I get are BOSCH 45x45-L1 000000001, BOSCH 45x45-LR2 000000002. So it is recognising that I am changing frame members, it just doesn't change the actual frame member.

Just to confirm when I first add a new frame member then I get the correct hole configuration, it only seems to be when I try to Edit the frame member.

I have also tried going into the folder and deleting the original frame member, but this does not help.  I don't see a refresh button, similar to standard content center part,s for custom parts in content center.  When I press the refresh button in content center it tells me that "No Standard components exist in this assembly", which of course is correct.

I have also found another issue.  I am trying to force the filename to be one that I have defined.  This can also be seen in the image "Inventor Family Table.PNG" where I have created an expression which include width, height, end finish and length (length is not shown in the box but it is there) and have tried to force the display name to be the same as the filename.  No matter what I have tried the filename and display name always uses the default as is shown in the image "Inventor Default FileName.png. Note that although the length shows up as 100 for all, I believe it does change correctly for the correct member length.  This was checked by creating a drawing and calling the length parameter (Qty) in a BOM and it does correctly show the length of the frame member.

I have also tried not mapping the file name to the Member.Dispaly name to see if that was the issue but I get the same result.

Is there a tick box or something that changes the filename from the default to the one I want?

Could the two issues be related in anyway?

Many thanks

[AlexFielder]

Hi @Timothy.kane,

Thanks for being thorough in your description; I'm still digesting everything you wrote but having clicked on the images you sent, the immediate thing that jumped out at me was the HUGE filename (path) length of the file being created in the Frame Member Naming dialogue.

I can't be certain it's related to/causing this issue but as a matter of principal I would take a good look at your folder structure and try to shorten it wherever possible.

From what you have described, it maybe that Autodesk need to look at this in detail; do you have a dataset available to share with them that exhibits this behaviour? (I work for a reseller so know the kind of questions that you'll no-doubt get asked)

It would also help if you could share here your template (iPart) file that you published to the content centre since it may be an issue with that file.

Thanks,

Alex.

[AlexFielder]

I forgot to add that if possible could you use Screencast to record your workflow (and thus the created file(s)/folder structure) when placing and attempting to edit these Members?

[Timothy.kane]

Hi @AlexFielder Thanks for your quick responses.  I have attached the file that I have used for generating one of the frame members. Are there any other files that would be helpful?

Unfortunately I will not be able to take a ScreenCast of the workflow due to various company policies. Is there any other information that I can give you that will help to identify where I have gone wrong? 

I will look and see what I can do about the file structure, but unfortunately again I am slightly limited in what I can change.

Thanks

[chandra.shekar.g]

@Timothy.kane,

As Frame Generator is a separate Addin, Inventor API does not support Frame Generator. Please log this wish list at idea station using below link.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideas/idb-p/v1232/tab/most-recent

Thanks and regards,

[Timothy.kane]

@chandra.shekar.g

Thank you for your comments.  I am not sure I understand what you are meaning though.  I have raised 2 issues here;

1) When changing member the holes shown do not follow the family table.

2) I am unable to change the automatically generated file name for each member.

Are you saying that what I am experiencing is the expected behaviour for each of the two issues, and if I want Inventor to do what I am trying to do that I should fill in a wish list to have this added in the future?

From further searching I believe that certainly for the issue with the file name that I am not able to change the default file name for each member.  This is not a big problem for me.

The issue of the frame members not correctly showing the holes as per the family table when changing a frame member is a bit more of  a problem as this is something that I expect to happen frequently. However so far I have not found anything to say if the behaviour that I am experiencing is the expected behaviour for Inventor or if I am incorrectly specifying something when generating the content center file.

Thanks

[Jon.Dean · Accepted solution]

Hi @Timothy.kane,

Thanks for the detailed explanation of the problem you are having and also thanks for the example part.

I authored it and published to my custom library.

If I place from Content Centre then everything works as expected and you can change the size without an issue, parts update correctly.

With Frame Generator, the first time you select your member, then the correct part is placed, the problem being you cannot change the part using "Edit with Frame Generator".

I will log this issue with development, as it works through Inventor but does not work when using Frame Generator.

As a workaround, you can delete the frame using "Delete with Frame Generator", then, add the new size. This works OK.

Cheers

Jon.

[Timothy.kane]

@Jon.Dean thank you for your response and for passing this on to development.