Stop telling me I need to save something I haven't changed

[andrewiv]

Inventor shouldn't be prompting for a save on a file that hasen't changed.  I'll give an example.  I insert assembly1 into assembly2 and set it to positional rep1.  I save assembly2 and close it.  Now I re-open assembly2 and it asks me if I want to update.  I say yes and now it asks if I want to check out assembly1.  I say no since I haven't done anything to it.  Now Inventor tells me that I need to save assembly1 and assembly2 even though I just saved them and the only thing I have done is open them.  I think this is wrong and it can create a ton of unneeded versions of the assembly when using vault.

[Bert_Bimmel]

Dear all,

trying to forbid Inventor to alter files by releasing them or putting them into a library-folder or locking them on file-system-level or however is the wrong approach: If you do not want Inventor to prompt for saving a file that you did not change on purpose, you must make sure, that it's finally clean. If you manage to do so, Inventor will (mostly) keep calm.

The first problem with this is, that Inventor saves many file-updates for later and does not perform them when they're due the first time, and neither Inventor nor the Vault tells the user which updates are pending and why prior to check in  / release.

The other thing is, that the Vault has no clue, which files fit together (and sometimes messes them up himself). It let's the user pass this Information, and if he has no clue either, the "5h1t in, 5h1t out"-principle applies.

So I see three tasks for Autodesk:

1: Don't let Inventor postpone any updates (and fix the residual issues)

2: Make the updating mechanism transparent, i.e. tell the user, which updates are pending, and which components are causing them

3: Make the Vault make sure, all Datasets are clean upon check in / download  (and do not enable the user to torpedo this unknowingly)

As long as Autodesk doesn't manage to do this, you're pretty much on your own, but with suitable discipline and knowledge of the updating mechanism of Inventor and its flaws, its possible to get along. (I offered my help a few posts earlier)

BTW: I am right now testing a different PDM-System that promises to make things better by either suppressing save prompts (no matter if they are legitimate or not) or performing them clandestinely without notice to the user.

Long story short: Doesn't really make things better.

Cheers, Bert

[bradeneuropeArthur]

Hi Bert,

"BTW: I am right now testing a different PDM-System that promises to make things better by either suppressing save prompts (no matter if they are legitimate or not) or performing them clandestinely without notice to the user."

Could you give us a hint?

Thanks,

[h.schkorwaga]

Hello Guys,

please have a look at this. I think the basic concept of how inventor/vault handles files with "write-protection" is wrong.

Please have a look at my post from 2015(!)

--> https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-ideas/write-protection-for-write-protected-files/idi-p/56023...

Cheers.

[bradeneuropeArthur]

Hi,

Related to this, some more ideas that could solve some (update) problems!

Vault Prompts Via API!

Vault Handbook/Manual!
Vault Defer Update!

Hope that this will help us to the solution!

Regards,

[ihayesjr]

n.schotten,

Can you open the Inventor Application Options, in the Save tab and see if "Prompt to save for migration" is checked?

[bradeneuropeArthur]

Hi @ihayesjr ,

Since some of the application options-settings are an issue working with Vault and regarding the issues here, there must be an predefined setup that cannot be changed by the user and locked.

If Autodesk assumes that the Application Options are to be set according a default or mandatory setup then they need to provide these mandatory settings to the users of the software.

Furthermore these settings must be prevented from changing with an administrator account (locked) and are not possible to be changed by the normal users. 

There are a lot more:

Since we have been visited by an Autodesk team in the past they have listed and provide some of them to us.

• Mass property update
• migrate files
• recomputable updates
• refresh conten center files
• vault prompts a few of them
• inventor promts a few of them
• and others

Regards,

[ihayesjr]

I understand your response. I just would like to know if you turned off the prompt today, does this help?

[dan_szymanski]

Some possible solutions for this idea are currently under discussion on the NDA based Inventor Feedback/Beta forums. If you would like to contribute to the discussion, please apply for access using this link: https://bit.ly/InventorBeta

[leowarren34]

Cheers @dan_szymanski, I'll be over there.

[ChrisMitchell01]

Some initial enhancements to improve this are now available to test in the Inventor Beta1. If you do not already have

Beta access then you can apply using http://Autode.sk/InventorBeta

Thanks

Chris

[dan_szymanski]

This idea has been implemented within Autodesk Inventor 2021. When saving files, a new 'Save State' column in the save dialog helps you understand what files Inventor is prompting you to save and why. Default save conditions and Prompt to Save preferences can be configured within the Application Options > Save tab, to set default behaviors. Lastly a new option "Save files in library folders" can be disabled so that you are NEVER prompted to save a file that exists within a library folder (traditionally content center files or custom content). Special thanks to everyone who cast a vote for it.

[andrewiv]

Great improvement in at least telling us why something needs to be changed.  Now, my next question is if I disable the "Save files in library folders" option will I be able to check an assembly into Vault if it says that one of the library components needs a save?

[Bert_Bimmel]

Hello Dan,

Have you by the way fixed the following related issues:

• Do not perform any updates only half-way and postpone the rest for later (e.g. updating MassProperties of FlatPatterns in SheetMetalParts or the MassProperties of multiple solids when changin the material when the "Update physical properties on save" is active).
• Instead of preventing library files from beeing saved, you'd rather prevent library files from beeing dirtied  (by implementing the point mentioned above)!
• Tell the user about pending updates before checking in a file (e.g. pending BOM- or MassProp-Updates)
• Do not dirty files without need (e.g. do not create a new GeometricRevisonID when... -replacing a component with an identical copy with a different filename only (aka rename-/-move-file-in-the-Vault-issue), -creating a flat pattern, -change the renderstyle of distinct faces only (and maybe expose that GeometricRevisionID by the API),  or the copy-paste-issue)
• Make the Vault make sure it knows all referenced file-versions befor checking in, i.e. maintaining a clean database (yet you can check in an assembly pointing to a completely messed up component without also checking in that version of the component, so the next user cannot download a clean set of files from the vault)
• another nice-to-have feature would be, if Inventor told the user which component(s) are responsible for an update prompt upon opening a file (or to put the cart before the horse - make Inventor and the Vault have the same opinion which files fit together or not)
• Implement some means to update old revisions if some referenced component has been changed via quickchange and thus dirtied the old revision.

So, I am curious for Inventor 2022 😉

Cheers, Bert

[n.schotten]

Bert brought up a good point on file versions.
Going a bit off topic here.
Is there a way to update selected/all assembly files to reference the latest
version (of it's assigned revision) of part (and sub asm) files?

Thanks,
Niels

[Bert_Bimmel]

Well, I've downloaded the trial version, and gave it a glimpse: Long story short: Mission not accomplished!

• Even if you set the application options to always save everything you might end up in an infinite loop of beeing prompted to save the same set of assemblies again and again.
• The save dialogue does not really satisfy: Selling me an implicit BOM update due to changes to child-components as user-induced change is misleading, and it does also not warn explicitly when applying geometric changes that will cause parent assemblies to prompt for an update immediately.
• Mass Properties are still ot performed entirely on save (e.g. Multiple Solids or Flat Patterns)
• When beeing prompted to save a single file upon close, Inventor does still NOT tell you why.
• When opening an assembly, and it does prompt for an updaqte immediatly it still makes a big mystery about the causing components

Let's see what else we can find ...🤔

So, dear Autodesk-Developers, go back to your desk and do your homework!

[DanSingleton]

The addition of the Save Library Files setting is nice but it would be even better to have the same setting for any Vaulted files in a Locked/Released state.

[ihayesjr]

I am going to try and answer some of the Vault related questions.

---

@andrewiv wrote:

"...If I disable the "Save files in library folders" option will I be able to check an assembly into Vault if it says that one of the library components needs a save?"

---

@Bert_Bimmel wrote:

Instead of preventing library files from beeing saved, you'd rather prevent library files from beeing dirtied (by implementing the point mentioned above)!

---

If you disable the "Save files in library folders", those files will not get dirted nor require a save. You will able to check in the assembly.

---

@Bert_Bimmel wrote:

Make the Vault make sure it knows all referenced file-versions before checking in, i.e. maintaining a clean database (yet you can check in an assembly pointing to a completely messed up component without also checking in that version of the component, so the next user cannot download a clean set of files from the vault)

Vault already knows all of the referenced file version before you check-in the assembly. It is based on what you have open inside of Inventor. It knows what the user tells it, what is opened in Inventor. The user should be using the VAult Browser, inside of Inventor to verify that it is the latest version of the revision being worked on. This is identified by the status icons in the Vault Browser.

---

@n.schotten wrote:

Is there a way to update selected/all assembly files to reference the latest version (of it's assigned revision) of part (and sub asm) files?

---

When you are using revisions in Vault, if you perform a Get on the revision, Vault will download the latest version of the files within that revision. If the assemblies need to be updated, you will need to save the changes and check-in the changed assemblies.

[n.schotten]

Hi ihayesjr,

What I meant was to update all/selected assemblies within vault, over
several projects, to be pointing to the latest version of the parts. So when
you purge you're not stuck with a bunch of older file versions.

Niels Schotten

[ihayesjr]

@n.schotten ,

That is already taken care of with the purge command and the control settings on the lifecycles. The assemblies will use the latest version within a revision and purge based on the settings.

As an example, if set WIP state not to keep any versions. Revision A of an assembly that used version 5 of a child in WIP but the Released version is 10 of the child. Purge will remove version 5 and the assembly will use the Released version 10.

[Bert_Bimmel]

@ihayesjr wrote:

If you disable the "Save files in library folders", those files will not get dirted nor require a save. You will able to check in the assembly

Nope! Library parts actually get dirtied in certain cases: When the MassProps of a library parts are not up2date, and a referencing assembly is initially saved with "update physical properties on save" option active, the library part shows up in the save dialog with MassPropEditFlag active (apparently i cannot repeat often enough:  don't prevent files from beeing saved! prevent files from beeing dirtied by NOT postponing any pending updates upon save! - Yeah i know, this was a made up example by intentionally disabling that particular update on save temporarily - but even though: MassProp-Updates are - even if the option is active - not performed completely, and Inventor still makes a botched Job on pending BOM-updates for instance)

@ihayesjr  wrote:

Vault already knows all of the referenced file version before you check-in the assembly...

Since which release is that so? Definitely not in 2016: There you can easily corrupt your Vault's database by checking in an assembly which points to a referenced file's version that is unknown by the vault. I'd bet, that this is still the case. (Can't figure this out by myself: Switching to Inventor 2020 the upcoming weekend, but switched to a different pdm-system meanwhile)

Greetings, Bert