Can't suppress sub-parts in Model States

[suomenvaimennin]

So now that Level of Design is dead the only option is Model States. If I try to suppress a part that is in a sub-assembly the suppress feature is greyed out. I can only suppress the entire sub-assembly. In this case I only want to suppress the seals and O-rings, but nope. If I try to do the same thing in Simplify, which apparently replaces Shrinkwrap, I can pick individual sub-parts, but they are not highlighted, so I have to remember what I've selected and hope I didn't miss any, or I'll have to start over. I'm struggling to se how Model states has improved anything, everything just seems more cumbersome. Am I missing something, or is this just a terribly flawed release?

[Anonymous]

The old functionality was working fine for my user cases, while I run into the same problem as you do with the new, so yes, the new functionality is flawed. Now I have to make model states for every subassembly, which is very cumbersome and sometimes even impossible when someone else has that assembly checked out.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! I believe you are attempting to suppress an occurrence across level. This is not a supported workflow in Model States. LOD seemingly supports it with '~' transient LOD. However, you will run into trouble down the stream. This transient state is a temporary state different than the current document LOD.

Model State blocks this workflow, because any Model State change needs to be captured on the Model State table. Such cross-level suppression cannot be captured on the table. What you need to do is to open the subassembly -> create a new Model State -> suppress the instance. Go back to the top-level assembly -> activate the newly created Model State in the subassembly.

Many thanks!

[suomenvaimennin]

So this "solution" works, but how on earth is this an improvement. Now I have to create a new sub-model state for each and every sub-assembly where I would like to suppress a part. 

Also, still no response as to why the Simplify command does not highlight the parts that have been excluded. Is there a way to fix this. In Shrinkwrap the parts were highlighted so you could know. In Simplify there is only a counter to show how many parts have been added to the list, but not which ones.

[Anonymous]

Yes, what you write is exactly my solution, but it much more work than before.  It is no exception when I have an assembly with 100 subassemblies and before I could just use part priority to quickly find and suppress the parts, now I have to make 100 model states...

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! In the past, the occurrence suppression seems to work across many levels. However, the BOM simply ignores it. This is no different than changing the visibility of the occurrence across many levels.

Model States does alter BOM. Inventor BOM is a aggregated BOM. Each level has its own BOM aggregated from the bottom. Such across levels relationship cannot be captured in the BOM unfortunately.

Many thanks!

[suomenvaimennin]

I still don't see any response to my second question. If I try to do the same thing in Simplify, which apparently replaces Shrinkwrap, I can pick individual sub-parts, but they are not highlighted, so I have to remember what I've selected and hope I didn't miss any, or I'll have to start over.  Is there a way to make the selected parts highlighted in the tree? I also tried to turn off the visibility of other parts so that I could see what was being excluded, but for some reason I cannot turn visibility back on while in Simplify, and Simplify treats Visibility off as Excluded, so that part also gets excluded in the simplified model as well. Really, really terrible "update".  

[Curtis_Waguespack]

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@Anonymous wrote:

..... when I have an assembly with 100 subassemblies ... now I have to make 100 model states...

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Hi @Anonymous 

There is an iLogic rule at this link that might be of interest on this subject:

Example: Create and Link Model States in the assembly and subassemblies - Autodesk Community - Inventor

I hope this helps.
Best of luck to you in all of your Inventor pursuits,
Curtis
http://inventortrenches.blogspot.com

[suomenvaimennin]

So I have a question about this iLogic rule. Inventor claims that they cannot build this functionality in because of how the BOM works, but it will work (supposedly) with your iLogic rule. How is that possible? Why are the users forced to write their code for them? Model States and Simplify seem like they should still be in Beta testing and not a real release since they are so much more tedious and time consuming.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! The ability to show excluded components are still there. Click on the gray button -> Show Excluded.

Many thanks!

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! I know you are disappointed with Model States. Indeed, the workflows aren't perfect. There is absolutely room for improvement. The iLogic code Curtis provided automates the process I mentioned earlier, similar to Link LOD workflow before.

Like I mentioned earlier Simplify command still allow you to show excluded components. You need to click on the button to see excluded components.

Many thanks!

[Curtis_Waguespack]

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@suomenvaimennin wrote:

So I have a question about this iLogic rule. Inventor claims that they cannot build this functionality in because of how the BOM works, but it will work (supposedly) with your iLogic rule. How is that possible? 

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I just posted another version on the Customization Forum, this one builds out the nested Model States (or reuses existing if you choose) but then allows you to select components to suppress, similar to past LOD workflows.... it's just a quick example and not bullet proof, but others will likely improve on the idea, and maybe add to that thread in the coming months.

As for your question, you might have misinterpreted what I'd done this morning.... that version simply built out the nested states....

but the last version allows suppression from the top level assembly... as for how? I'm simply automating the manual workflow of opening the parent subassembly (invisibly) and suppressing the selected component and then closing the subassembly. I'm not certain that there isn't a better way to automate this with the API tools, but that's a different discussion.

So your question then becomes, why can't the developers emulate the same workflow of opening the subassembly in the background, and allowing components to be suppressed from the top level, with built in tools rather than user created ones?

I don't have an answer to that, but it seems like it would be an improvement over the limited built-in workflow that has been provided.

Here's the direct link:

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/inventor-customization/example-create-and-activate-model-states-in-th...

[suomenvaimennin]

yes, I know I can show excluded parts as the parts themselves, but why not in the tree? I can't see the parts that I still need to exclude, that's the problem, and I can't even switch visibility of other parts on and off to assist this. 

I'm still unclear how this is better in any way if you admit "workflows aren't perfect", and actually workflows are much worse than before. New versions should be better, not just different.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! The cross-highlighting is there. If you expand the browser tree, you will see the selected parts.

In terms of occurrence suppression, during the project cycle, it had been debated quite a few times (on ITF events and Inventor Feedback Community). LOD does not alter BOM table. Nor does occurrence suppression impact BOM table. What it did was merely hiding the occurrences from the graphics window. As a result, such LOD is migrated as a Design View Rep in 2022.

It would be nice if we could support occurrence suppression. I see the usage and its power. However, such ability requires significant change to how Inventor BOM works. Unfortunately, it was considered out-of-scope.

Regarding Model States' room for improvement, every workflow and every corner in Inventor has room for improvement. Model States is no exception. But, I don't mean that Model States has serious problems blocking usage. I think you will disagree with me. But, I believe there are users disagreeing with you also.

Many thanks!

[suomenvaimennin]

So yes, they show up in the tree, but only if I press the show excluded button, otherwise nothing is highlighted. And if I'm in show excluded, I can't choose any more parts until I switch back. It would be much better if the excluded parts would be highlighted in the tree always. Again, worse than before.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! I am sorry I am confused. The behavior has not been changed for years. The excluded components only appear when you click Show Excluded. Could you tell me which release you are comparing against?

Many thanks!

[suomenvaimennin]

In 2020 version of Shrinkwrap you could see the parts in the tree highlighted as you selected them. Shrinkwrap is dead and has now been replaced by Simplify. We use this function a lot when sending models to customers. Also, not sure why visibility should exclude the parts in the final simplified model, but it does.  

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! Many thanks for your patience! I think I see the difference now. It has something to do with the browser node highlighting and also making the component node invisible, while you are excluding components. Shrinkwrap does show that in the browser but Simplify does not.

This looks like a design change. I need to check with the project team to understand the behavior better.

Thanks again!

[Anonymous]

Well, I ran into the next problem with these model states: I want to suppress some parts in a frame generator assembly and there is no way to make that a linked model state. You can suppress parts in a frame generator assembly, but you cannot make it into a named model state which can be linked. So the only option I see is to split the frame generator assembly over multiple parent assemblies and then suppress what I need.

[johnsonshiue]

Hi! Like I mentioned earlier, Frame Gen does not fully support Model States. The same holds true for Cable&Harness and Tube&Pipe. So, you cannot have two different states for these components. Creating a non-Master Model State is blocked.

You will need to leverage iLogic Design Copy to replicate the design.

Many thanks!