What is really possible with T-Splines.....

[PhilProcarioJr]

So some coworkers keep talking about how limited T-Splines usefulness is. To be honest it's not limitations of T-Splines or Fusion it's the person using them and their knowledge of the tools. I have even seen post here on the boards downing on T-Splines. 

So anyways a friend challenged me to a bet, he claims I can not get the orc head model from Topogun into Fusion 360 as a CAD model fully editable. The head is made up of over a million polygons. Almost 2 million. Here is what the highres model looks like.

The challenge was two fold:

1st part is to model the head using only Fusion 360 and that's what I am going to post today. 

2nd part is I can use whatever tools I have as long as I end up with a fully editable CAD model.

So anyways here is what I came up with after 3 hours in Fusion Sculpt environment using just T-Splines.

Here is a video showing that the T-Spline mesh is fully editable:

I am not happy with this at all but I think it's a good start. More to come....

Cheers

[0502880]

Hi Phil and other Sculpt/ T-Spline experts!

It's interesting to follow all conversation around T-Splines and what's possible and what's "difficult" (don't say impossible ;)). I have made a couple of trials in Sculpt environment and already found quite nice possibilities and also challenges. In the last trial I got problems with smooth transition between different shapes (see a picture enclosed). The goal was to get a smooth"A-class" surface. Probably I have used wrong methods, but I think those are quite common problems with T-Splines.

There has been discussions to get some tutorials with that kind problems. And should give all possible advise about good practises with T-Splines (avoid star points, how to think the shape with 4-sided faces etc...). I don't mean that you Phil should do it, but could it be done by Autodesk people?

Thank's!

Juha

[PhilProcarioJr]

@0502880

I would have to look at your model to figure out why you have that surface flaw.

As to Class-A surfaces from T-Splines...it is completely possible but hard to achieve with "certain surfaces" and the current tools.

Not impossible just that it can be hard with the current toolset.

This is the reason I use a modeler and Topogun with T-Splines so often.

For Class-A surfaces your biggest enemy is surface tension and right now solving surface tension with T-Splines is completely trial and error.

By definition:

Class A surfaces is a term used in automotive design to describe a set of freeform surfaces of high efficiency and quality. Although, strictly, it is nothing more than saying the surfaces have curvature and tangency alignment - to ideal aesthetical reflection quality, many people interpret class A surfaces to have G2 (or even G3) curvature continuity to one another (see freeform surface modelling).

Class A surfacing is done using computer-aided industrial design applications. Class A surface modellers are also called "digital sculptors" in the industry. Industrial Designers develop their design styling through the A surface, the physical surface the end user can feel, touch, see etc.

What most people don't understand is the feel, touch, see part...in it's simplest this is all due to "surface tension"

When working on Class A surfaces your goal is to take a design and solve the "Surface tension equation" once you do you end up with a perfect surface in feel, touch and sight...etc

G2 and others try to do this in an automated way, so when your working without true G2 you have to go back to the old school methods.

Too many people now a days don't understand what's going on in the tools and rely way to much on the tools doing everything for them...this is a mistake in my opinion.

For instance how did they make cars before digital design?

Working in quads is actually the easy part of modeling with T-Splines.

My guess based on your render is your problem is feature topology flow or surface tension or a combination of them both.

The problem is in the math and as a designer you don't want to think about the math or how the tools are doing what they do, but the reality is if you don't understand the how and why of a tool you can't use it to 100% of it's capabilities. Once you understand the weak points and strong points of a tool you can develop a workflow and environment that's truly inspiring and rewarding.

Cheers

[0502880]

Here is the link to my test file: http://a360.co/2eb3JvJ

I just begun to try to make same model as "traditional" way by using Patch tools (loft etc.). I'm just curious which kind result I will get with Fusion.

-Juha

[PhilProcarioJr]

@0502880

I had a look at your file and was able to quickly fix your flaw in the surface, but the flaw could have been avoided by using a different technique in creation. I don't have enough time right now but I would like to see if I can make a video this weekend.

One thing I think would help you a lot is to turn on the curvature map while your working in the sculpt environment. That way you can get realtime feedback of your changes to the surface. 

Another thing I noticed that was probably your biggest mistake is your working with your T-Spline smoothed and that's fine but make sure you switch to box mode and check your geometry as you have over lapping faces and that is a definite problem. If you have to overlap your geometry to get the look you want you need more edge loops. The reason you had over lapping geometry is because of surface tension and dealing with surface tension the way you did is the worst thing you can possibly do. 

I get that your learning and that's why you made the mistakes, that's why I'm telling you all of this is so you can learn and get better with them.

This is actually a beautiful model for showing a good T-Spline work flow and the traps that are easy to fall into.

Thank you for sharing this I will definitely make some good videos for you as soon as time permits. 

Cheers

[PhilProcarioJr]

@0502880

I also wanted to point out all the problem areas in your surface (circled in green).

Almost all of these can be fixed in seconds using the curvature map in T-Spline edit mode.

[0502880]

Thank's Phil for your effort to my test file! Actually I've used the box mode quite a lot (I think that's the must thing if you try to get smooth surfaces...) but maybe I didn't have patience enough to correct all mistakes ;). Yes, I should learn to use curvature map as a "everyday" tool, I haven't use it that much (actually none with this model...).

I will wait with interest your videos, hope that you will find some time for that!

Thank's!

-Juha

[PhilProcarioJr]

Candle design I am working on for my wife....still needs a lot of work and isn't finished.

[PhilProcarioJr]

Some more refinement and progress to show the direction I am headed.

[brianrepp]

That's awesome Phil.  Are you planning on actually making it, and if so, HOW?!

[PhilProcarioJr]

@brianrepp

Oh come on now Brian, you know I'm going to actually make it. 

If you want to do a phone call I can explain it to you over the phone, but since my wife's business is going to be unique I can't share this one with the world and the web. Only pictures...

She would kill me...lol

[PhilProcarioJr]

More progress....

[PhilProcarioJr]

I needed an Autodesk/Fusion plate for the project @Phil.E and I are working on.

The Fusion F model was completely un-editable so I made my own with T-Splines.

[0502880]

Hi Phil,

and only with four sided faces, I suppose 😉

-Juha

[PhilProcarioJr]

@0502880

Yep! 

[PhilProcarioJr]

Finally get to finish my wife's mirror...

392 T-Spline Bodies to make this one....

[TrippyLighting]

I guess that'll take some sanding after the CNC work to get it as smooth as the CAD model. Very nicely done Phil! 

[PhilProcarioJr]

@TrippyLighting

Thanks!

I'm setting it up on the mill right now, so I will take some pictures tomorrow of the piece after it's milled.

I hope I don't have to do much sanding...lol 

[PhilProcarioJr]

@TrippyLighting

It just started the finish passes and I can say for sure it will not need any sanding at all....

The finish passes are done with a tapered 1/32" ball mill with a step over of 0.003"...absolutely beautiful finish....

[TrippyLighting]

I'd love to see some images and a closeup of that sort of surface!

I am assuming you are doing this on a self built CNC machine ?

[PhilProcarioJr]

@TrippyLighting

I will definitely post pictures of it tomorrow. The finish is way beyond what I was expecting, I'm trying a new finish bit and the results in my opinion are stunning. 

We bought a Shapeoko 3 a month ago...I am building a custom CNC mill but it's on hold for a time as I have so much client work to get done.

I just don't have as much time as I would like so gotta do what you have to in order to get the job done and plus I didn't want to break the bank as we are looking into getting a foundry kit and making a setup to hand craft custom knives and swords. A lot of money going out right now....