Maple appearance library?

[cyberreefguru]

This may sound like a silly question, but does anyone have a library for maple?  Fusion comes with oak, and cherry, and walnut, but no maple.  I'm sure I could figure out how to model it, but it seems like something that folks would have already come across.  Thanks!

-Tom

[innovatenate]

There are some update coming out this weekend in the November release of Fusion 360 regarding wood. There's going to be additional wood appearance available. This might help with your current needs.

[PhilProcarioJr]

Im working on one now, pics are in this thread.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/design-validate-document/working-on-some-new-wood-appearances-for-use...

[cyberreefguru]

Thanks everyone - looking forward to the update...

-Tom

[TOwens777]

I would love for someone to create a figured maple option (quilted maple, tiger stripe, curly.)  That would be great for guitar buiders.

[PhilProcarioJr]

I will have to write some scripts to generate these patterns...I'll see what I can come up with.

[TOwens777]

Awesome!!!  

[TrippyLighting]

When you say "creating paterns", does this also include bump/normal maps, specularity mps, etc. ?

Wood is an incredibly complex materiual from a lighting standpoint ( and not only there )  with sub surface scattering propoerties aiinisotropic reflections. This is particularly true for the heavily figured woos such as birds-eye, tiger and curly maple. these aformentioned properties are exatctly what make these so visually attrative.

[PhilProcarioJr]

Yes I am making all maps for the collection, although it should be noted that Fusion doesn't support all maps. The idea is to have maps that can be used in fusion for the desired look in the design then brought into another app for render.....For instance I have yet to see sub-surface scattering in Fusion but the final collection will include all maps. Ideally anyone wanting to render product shots should be using a PBR app like substance for their final shots. Autodesk really needs a PBR in their apps because sooner or later all renders will be PBR based. First off render times are realtime...so no waiting for renders and the level of realism is insane and once again its realtime so products can be shown to clients in a realtime environment and the object can be rotated zoomed in on ect, all without waiting for a render....

All the images I posted were in Fusion 360, they look way better in an app like substance designer.

[cyberreefguru]

@TrippyLightingwow - small world. I'm following your thread with Jantje about arduino libraries and now here...small world indeed. 

[milos.hasan]

Hello, I am an engineer working on Fusion rendering. There is a 3D wood feature just released in the latest Fusion update, which has many presets including maple, please give it a try. However, the strong quilted figure (common e.g. on guitars) will not yet be achievable with the current presets. We are planning to add this feature and some presets for it in the near future.

Regarding some other comments above:

- Fusion's rendering and materials are fully based on PBR already, and most parameters are texturable

- subsurface scattering has been supported for a while (called "translucency"), though it is not the feature you need to achive anisotropic wood highlights

[cyberreefguru]

Milos - thanks for the response. Perhaps I'm not understanding the full configurability of the textures, but I was very disappointed in the new textures. They made my piece look like the end of a giant log rather than nice inline grain. Perhaps you can explain how to effectively leverage the textures?

-Tom

[donsmac]

Hi Tom,

After you apply the 3D wood texture, select the texture mapping controls (in render mode) to move and rotate the texture. That way you can move the 'center of the log' to a position that is off the model.

Also you can edit the texture to change the ring size and other parameters. You won't be dissapointed 🙂

~Don

[PhilProcarioJr]

Hi Milos,

I have to ask, whats the point of using a PBR if you don't expose all the controls to the user? Which PBR method is Fusion using? As far as Sub-Surface Scattering goes its useless if you can't plug in a depth map and if the software calculates that on its own without user control then once again its useless. I don't want a slider for everything. A slider is fine to control a number, but in sub-surface scattering the amount of translucency is dependant on the depth (thickness) and material. I guess my point is you guys can add all the fancy tech you want to the software but if the user can't control it (COMPLETELY) then its of very little use. Not trying to be snide here, just trying to make a point, I work with renderings for products everyday and although Fusions renderings are ok they are far cry from your competitors. So I am forced to use other apps for them. I had this same conversation with the creators of Modo. Expose all the parameters to the user. On another note, I'm happy to see you guys adding more materials but the new wood materials just wont cut it for my needs, sure its great that I can control the rings and their size but other things like noise, frequency, turbulence...so on found in maple are missing...once again thanks for the effort but the new stuff just doesn't meet my needs....

Just my 2 cents

[TrippyLighting]

That is really the reason that a good API for external render engines is needed.

You may want to give Thea a try.

I already own a license of Indigo Renderer and have used it for a while but Thea may be a Christmas gift to myself this year.

[PhilProcarioJr]

I would consider Thea, but I already own Substance Designer and Lightwave so photorealistic renders is easy to achieve for me. Besides the renderer I'm using now is realtime and I could never go back to waiting for renders to finish. I love the fact that I can change all parameters of a material and see the models update instantly. Plus it allows me to show my clients all material and render changes in realtime on a model that they can walk/fly around....all in realtime. Time is money and waiting on renders cost money and wastes my time which I don't have enough of right now....

[milos.hasan]

Hi Phil, I am not sure why you believe the parameters aren't exposed. You can just right-click on any material in the browser and edit it. Then you can click the "advanced" button and open all roll-outs to see all the parameters. Fusion materials are all based on standard microfacet BRDF theory which is now common in many PBR apps.

Here I show it on Leather-Glossy but it works on all native Fusion materials (with the exception of the new 3D wood, where the advanced button will appear in the future). If you want to, you can enable translucency and supply textures for both "depth" (mean free path) and the diffuse albedo. Most parameters are texturable. Also note that the bump map scale has precise real-world units, if you open that menu.

[PhilProcarioJr]

I should have worded my post differently, Since I am used to all the control I have with Substance Designer and IRAY Renderer I was thinking there should be a lot more in Fusion then what I have found and what your showing me. For instance what if I needed to add design work into the surface of the leather, modeling it would be a waste of time as a leather worker isn't going to use the 3d model for the design in the leather and it would take forever, but I want my client to see what it will look like on the bike. I'm glad you brought up the leather texture as I am working on a new Harley Davidson seat for a client right now and have to do what I described. Either the documentation on rendering is very poor or I just don't understand how to get the results I'm looking for from the renders. I have used Mental RAY, VRAY, IRAY, LightWorks, Modo's Renderer for the last 19 years with some really fantastic results. I still am not able to get the results I'm after with Fusion 360's built in renderer. On a side note I have yet to see a current gen Renderer that doesn't support normal mapping along side detail mapping...seems I can't find the area to plug in normal maps into fusion materials. And the new 3d Wood materials...how do I control the knots (IE) more then one center one? How do I control knot influence, slant, placement and elongation? Sure I can control some of these parms on one knot what about the others. On Maple how do I control the turbulence of the rings as all the Maple sold here where I live doesn't look anything like what I can achieve with your new materials. The Maple sold here is not exotic Maples either like birds-eye or quilted. What I was getting at is the materials in Fusion always look cg no matter what I set things up to and getting variety of each material seems next to impossible. Sure if everything is a basic gloss color they look good. Maybe Substance Designer and IRAY have just spoiled me I don't know, but over the last week or so before the latest release I was under the impression these new wood materials were going to impress.....So show me some renders and how to set them up and show us how to use them. 

[milos.hasan]

Hi Phil, answers to your points:

- Normal maps are supported along with height (bump) maps. Just click the button next to the "relief pattern (bump)", and there is a drop-down allowing you to upload either a height or normal map.

- For positioning the wood grain, you need to activate the texture mapper tool, and then you can adjust how your piece is cut out of the tree. Note, your model should have the right physical size. Here are some examples.

- If you want to use Substance, or any other texture creation tool (e.g. CrazyBump), you can just take the output color, normal, and roughness textures, and upload to the respective channels. (Make sure to be use the "PBR" substances).

[phillip.r.prentice]

Did you ever get these patterns worked out?  I'd love to have these as well.

Thanks,

Phil