Flattening Surface

Flattening Surface

MichaelT_123
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Message 1 of 14

Flattening Surface

MichaelT_123
Advisor
Advisor

Hi F360Fellows,

 

As promised, please find some visuals of the Flattening Surfaces Approach. In the general case, the process is not trivial and depends on the breadth/scope of its development, which may vary. The visuals demonstrate some aspect of attacking the problem. Obviously, the march/battle to … final resolution is arduous. So who knows where the road will wander?

A short explanation of some histogram symbols:

  • ΔA – flattened surface local relative area size error
  • ΔP – flattened surface local relative perimeter length error
  • ΔD – flattened surface local maximum length distortion along UV axes

 FlattenFace_arcd.png

 

FlattenFace_mono.png

 

 

Attached files:

FlattenFace_mono.png     4K_mono ( 0.5MB)    https://a360.co/43XHWvk

FlattenFace_arcd.png       4K_stereo ( 1.4MB)   https://a360.co/3NWnrcZ

FlattenFace_mono.mp4    4K_mono  (15MB)     https://a360.co/3Nr1alT

FlattenFace_arcd.mp4      4K_stereo  (48MB)    https://a360.co/43Y75G3

 

To be viewed on 4K media devices (monitors, UHD TVs, projectors...) of reasonable performance. For the best experience, use stand-alone media applications (WMP, VLC) and set to the native resolution of 3840x2160 - full screen. The '_arcd' files require anaglyph red/cyan glasses, while '_al' is for active shutter glasses 3D hardware (~30 deg viewing angle is recommended). Download the files over a network, where the cost of doing so is not a concern. The files are to be used for private, non-commercial purposes only.

 

Regards

MichaelT

 

MichaelT
Accepted solutions (2)
3,484 Views
13 Replies
Replies (13)
Message 2 of 14

FABRIZIO.BREVIARIO
Participant
Participant

I'm sorry but I didn't understand well, this is a demo of what could be the flattening of the surface in fusion 360 or a feature already available?

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Message 3 of 14

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant
Accepted solution

It's not an existing feature that is available through the "normal" menus.

@MichaelT_123 has superb math and programming skills. This is likely implemented using the Fusion 360 API.


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Message 4 of 14

MichaelT_123
Advisor
Advisor

Hi Mr FABRIZIO.BREVIARIO,

 

Mr TrippyLighting has kindly answered your question. THANK YOU, Mr Peter Doering.

As I have stated in my previous communications  ... the post contains  ... the visuals only ...  hopefully as the encouragement for TF360 to get act together to add such undoubtedly useful for many tools.

The real thing behind visuals is not available to the general public.

 

Regards

MichaelT

 

MichaelT
Message 5 of 14

FABRIZIO.BREVIARIO
Participant
Participant

Thanks a lot to both of you i hope that in future they're going to implement those feature in fusion 360.

 

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Message 6 of 14

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@MichaelT_123 @FABRIZIO.BREVIARIO I have posted a link to this thread on the Autodesk Fusion 360 Slack Channel. We'll see what the feedback is.


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Message 7 of 14

FABRIZIO.BREVIARIO
Participant
Participant

Sorry but what's the Autodesk Fusion 360 Slack Channel.

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Message 8 of 14

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

It allows Autodesk Expert Elite members direct access to the developers using the Slack application.


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Message 9 of 14

FABRIZIO.BREVIARIO
Participant
Participant

Thanks, I hope one day to be one of them

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Message 10 of 14

hfcandrew
Advisor
Advisor

@MichaelT_123 Is playing blindfolded chess while us simpletons are still learning the rules to checkers.

Message 11 of 14

MichaelT_123
Advisor
Advisor

Hi F360Fellows,

 

It so happens that while conducting experiments with video compression codecs, I used one of the flattening-surface test objects.

I am attaching some visuals from the test, which mostly concentrate on video compression quality/performance. Below you will find files produced by the classic lib265 codec, as well as more "modern" ones like VP9 (*.webm) and AV1 (*.av1).

Modernity comes at a cost. Playing videos (each at the same 6K resolution) might cause problems on older hardware and legacy software, particularly Microsoft's Media Players.

I would highly recommend VLC Media Player (free) and HEIC Viewer (from the MS Store, some cost), although there are certainly other capable options.

The outcome of the exercise is difficult to ascertain … without further testing and objective analytical tools. A staggering number of different options/parameters in play is a significant challenge here.

Subjective assessments/judgments…? I will leave it to individual viewers!

As a side (bitter) note…

The F360, across the board, uses an 8-bit (4*2^8-bit) colour representation. In the era of a quite steady shift in hardware toward HDR displays, this creates a user experience deficit. Upgrading the graphics path to 10-bit colour representation could open new perspectives, including perceptually better visuals than those laboured below.  

FlattenFace_G4D_mono_6K.jpg

 

Attached files:

FlattenFace_G4D_mono_6K.png     6K_mono ( 6.5MB)     https://a360.co/4udao94

FlattenFace_G4D_arcd_6K.png       6K_stereo ( 5.4MB)    https://a360.co/3QDzwrb

FlattenFace_G4D_mono.mp4           6K_mono  (146MB)     https://a360.co/49hBX96

FlattenFace_G4D_arcd.mp4             6K_stereo  (293MB)    https://a360.co/4cIWbLn

FlattenFace_G4D_mono.webm        6K_mono  (116MB)     https://a360.co/48yzQh7

FlattenFace_G4D_arcd.webm          6K_stereo  (129MB)    https://a360.co/4taMs5b

FlattenFace_G4D_mono_svt.av1     6K_mono  (103MB)     https://a360.co/4tGCcTj

FlattenFace_G4D_arcd_svt.av1       6K_stereo  (100MB)    https://a360.co/4t1YFcF

 

To be viewed on 4K media devices (monitors, UHD TVs, projectors...) of reasonable performance. For the best experience, use stand-alone media applications (e.g., VLC, HEIC) and set the native resolution to at least 4K, 6K or higher (full screen). The '_arcd' files require anaglyph red/cyan glasses, while '_al' is for active shutter glasses 3D hardware (~30 deg viewing angle is recommended). Download the files over a network where the cost of doing so is not a concern. The files are to be used for private, non-commercial purposes only.

 

Regards

MichaelT

MichaelT
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Message 12 of 14

MichaelT_123
Advisor
Advisor

Hi F360Fellows,

 

I have decided to take another small step toward a better understanding of how video (image) compression works, particularly in the encroaching era of 10-bit depth colour-capable hardware. Although colour gradation might be a second afterthought (not counting high-quality rendering, I would not dare to argue here, Mr TrippyLighting !), 10-bit, when combined with high resolution, should provide better line contrast, which is so important in CAD drawings.

 

As I indicated in my previous post, "Subjective assessments/judgments" are difficult to quantify, so I built a couple of utility tools making such evaluations more systematic.

In this chapter, I focused on assessing the "colour error" between the reference (a raw F360 output, unfortunately, 8-bit only) and the selected pixel colour formats for the output videos (in all cases, the libx265 codec was used). The PCFs (pixel chroma formats) were paired as 8-bit and 10-bit colour depths, respectively (yuv420p|yuv420p10le, rgb24|x2rgb10le), arranged (UL|UR, DL|DR).

 

Warning! The resulting visuals are at 6K resolution and "nominally" in 10-bit colour depth. How they will present on your display … is an open question I cannot answer.

I can only say that I can distinguish some phantom differences on a 10-bit depth UHD+ OLED display. If you see only black … DO NOT throw your monitor into the rubbish bin; instead, consider upgrading it.

 

View the attached files in the native environment after downloading them. Some are substantial in size, but I purposely refrained from compressing them. VLC video viewer, which is recommended, and GIMP can handle PNGs. Both software tools are free and in the public domain. 

 

So, it is time for … a test of your monitor.

The PNG shows the difference between an image delivered by F360 and the corresponding frame from a video encoded with the same image. The PNGs are in 48-bit format (16-bit red, 16-bit green, 16-bit blue). Mind you, your system's internal graphics path will squeeze this 48-bit representation within its capabilities.

 

Perhaps histograms are the most visible differences between the tiles.

The histogram resolution is 6K[0]=6016, although other synthetic numeric data overlaid on the picture are scaled to a more understandable 8-bit range. Thus, the height of the leftmost histogram bin (clipped if necessary) represents the number of pixels with colour error of 1/65536 for each r|g|b channel. The population of errors-by-value drops sharply as we move to the right on the chart, with the range purposely limited to 1/8 of the full 255-colour domain, since larger errors are less likely. 

Error distributions (histograms) vary between different codecs. One might assume that the steepest distribution and less lingering errors (to the right of the histogram) should yield "the sharpest" video. For me, the x2rgb10le is the winner, although yuv420 PCF – equivalent to a nominal 1.5 bytes per pixel should be the most suitable (from the selection) for 8-bit depth of 3 bytes of F360 colour output when accounting for the compression ratio. I have not tried YUV422 or YUV444, pixel compression formats (chromas), though. Likely, the preference for the PCF might differ between potential native 10-bit image input and the current, unfortunately, only 8-bit.

threshold_26_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_0029_AB_ovl_U.jpg

  •  threshold_26_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_0029_AB_ovl_D.png

The above assessment held until I processed the second tile quadruple (yuv420p|yuv420p16le, yuv422p16le|yuv444p16le). I went full throttle there, choosing a 16-bit double-byte colour depth for the comparison (the first tile stays the same). The rough picture of the quad-charts is presented below, but only as a placeholder. The real 6K resource should be downloaded and analysed in the native environment of your display system.

threshold_26_420p_26_420p16le_26_422p16le_26_444p16le_0029_AB_ovl_U.jpg

  •  threshold_26_420p_26_420p16le_26_422p16le_26_444p16le_0029_AB_ovl_D.png

You might rightfully complain about your handicapped vision predicament and inability to see 2^16 colour graduations, but relax, you are not alone. In the not-too-distant future, you will be generously offered an obligatory opportunity to equip yourself with an appropriate vision implant, purchased on a low-interest 30-year credit plan. Then you will know what you cannot see clearly now. The future is bright! Just be patient!

 

In the meantime, to satisfy your 16-bit dream, the videos below (once again to be viewed in their native form), like pinholes, demonstrate how the world (in this case, video codecs' pixel colour errors) can be seen with ever-increasing visual bit depth.

  • threshold_16_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_x265.mp4
  • threshold_26_420p_26_420p16le_26_422p16le_26_444p16le_x265.mp4

Short description of how even the tiniest pixel colour errors can be viewed.

First, the whole error map (array) is clipped to a range from 0 to the error threshold. The threshold value is indicated on the video frames and standardised to the <0, 255> range. Since the array values can range from 0 to 16 bits, the internal values are scaled accordingly, thus achieving a granularity of 1/65536th. In the second step, the result is normalised to an 8-bit visual range for 'the implant less' display. Thus, the first frames of a video represent the smallest pixel colour errors, which, as frames progress, are scaled to a wider range and become "fainter and fainter". The "pixel error sweep" is organised to emphasise both the small error range and the one approaching the 7-bit thresholds (it is not of the linear rate). Beyond 7 bits, the screen would be too dark to show any visible changes.

The dynamic histogram overlayed on each video frame depicts the error distribution. The most extreme bins are clipped.

The complementary PNG files show the absolute pixel colour error map at the full 8-bit thresholds, extending the 8-bit visual range as in the videos, with some occasional vision-impairment enhancements.

  • threshold_26_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_0029_AB_ovl_D.png
  • threshold_26_420p_26_420p16le_26_422p16le_26_444p16le_0029_AB_ovl_D.png

So, although your (our) vision is still constrained to an 8-bit range, you (we) can peep through a hole and anticipate what's going on beyondeven without an implant. Yes, I know, it is a poor man's solution… but what can we do?

 

Here is a preview of how the separate 16-bit split, lower byte and upper byte of the future VisionVerse would be revealed before your enhanced eyes. Note, the first image in the post shows the convolution of both bytes, or of the two images below. 

threshold_26_420p_26_420p16le_26_422p16le_26_444p16le_0029_AB_ovl_L.jpg

  •  threshold_26_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_0029_AB_ovl_L.jpg

threshold_26_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_0029_AB_ovl_D.jpg

 

  •  threshold_26_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_0029_AB_ovl_D.jpg

We agree, don't we? The future is bright… or dark, as in the current case. Your (our) current 8-bit perception will be only a tiny fraction (1/256th) of a much richer 16-bit world… almost insignificant… to be bragging about it… and the surrounding dark ages!

 

What about more serious conclusions and weaknesses of the analysis, lensed by the exercise? I already have some preliminary ones; they might even be revolutionary. As some know, revealing revelations in the dark ages face a risk. I will weigh it… until the next post… in the dark.

 

Attached files:

threshold_16_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_x265.mp4                               https://a360.co/4v5VNwC

threshold_26_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_0029_AB_ovl_L.jpg              https://a360.co/49sOqHk

threshold_26_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_0029_AB_ovl_D.jpg             https://a360.co/4u0ZHWK

threshold_26_420p_26_422p10le_26_rgb24_26_x2rgb10le_0029_AB_ovl_D.png            https://a360.co/4u5oU25

 

threshold_26_420p_26_420p16le_26_422p16le_26_444p16le_x265.mp4                           https://a360.co/4dAPM5q

threshold_26_420p_26_420p16le_26_422p16le_26_444p16le_0029_AB_ovl_L.jpg          https://a360.co/4uF8E9o      

threshold_26_420p_26_420p16le_26_422p16le_26_444p16le_0029_AB_ovl_D.jpg          https://a360.co/4fJF6Tc

threshold_26_420p_26_420p16le_26_422p16le_26_444p16le_0029_AB_ovl_D.png         https://a360.co/4uD1UsE

 

FlattenFace_26_rgb24.mp4                                                                                                           https://a360.co/4f6iVXa

FlattenFace_26_x2rgb10le.mp4                                                                                                    https://a360.co/4uuNRFf 

FlattenFace_26_444p10le.mp4                                                                                                     https://a360.co/3RAl5oa

FlattenFace_26_444p.mp4                                                                                                            https://a360.co/3PDu3R3

FlattenFace_26_422p10le.mp4                                                                                                     https://a360.co/4tWPryw

FlattenFace_26_422p.mp4                                                                                                            https://a360.co/49onubG 

FlattenFace_26_420p10le.mp4                                                                                                    https://a360.co/4af9uRR

FlattenFace_26_420p.mp4                                                                                                            https://a360.co/4e66fOW

FlattenFace_26_420p16le.mp4                                                                                                     https://a360.co/4dM8F3Q         

FlattenFace_26_422p16le.mp4                                                                                                     https://a360.co/3Rwxj1i

FlattenFace_26_444p16le.mp4                                                                                                    https://a360.co/432wEXN

                               

To be viewed on 4K media devices (monitors, UHD TVs, projectors...) of reasonable performance and preferably 10-bit colour depth capability. For the best experience, use a stand-alone media player (e.g., VLC) and set the native resolution to full screen. Download the files over a network where the cost of doing so is not a concern. The files are to be used for private, non-commercial purposes only.

 

 

Have the 16R16G16B⨂16α Night…..

          Regards

         MichaelT

MichaelT
Message 13 of 14

MichaelT_123
Advisor
Advisor

Hi F360Fellows,

 

I have taken yet another small step toward a better understanding of how video (image) compression works, particularly in the encroaching era of 10-bit-depth, color-capable hardware. This time, the exercise focused on checking the "real" or perceived depth of color on a monitor.

The task produced a series of files representing selected basic color diagrams with simulated colour bit depths. They open (still subjective), look at the monitor, and its color love affairs.

All files are in 6K resolution. PNG files retain the designated/simulated color tone resolution (up to 16 bits). How will your monitor respond to the lovely date encounter with well-dressed files… well, observe from a short distance. If you are of a pedantic nature, open PNG in some software (like GIMP) and investigate the content pixel by pixel. RGB color values are expressed in the uint16 domain. Also, technically gifted color aficionados can try calibrating a monitor's LUT (LookUpTable) using a colorimeter or even a spectrophotometer, but only on capable, I mean, Intelligent monitors.

The competition(s) of distinguishing color tones can also be on the agenda.

Females tend to have better eyes for color than men. However, if you are in the handicapped group, there is a good excuse for upgrading yourself, unless you don't want to dull the sensitivity of your beer taste buds… irrecoverably! Would it be worth it?

A contest between two or more monitors would likewise bring some excitement, surprises, and, most of all, raise questions about comparable color-rendering quality.

Here are the files. Presumably, some of them will produce, together with your monitor, of course, no distinguishable chromatic love sparks. However, who knows how happy your experience will be when equipped with so desirable a vision implant purchased on a low-interest 30-year loan, generously subsidised by your government. Can't we wait, can we?

Ohhh… monitors will also likely improve and will become a part of your implant!

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_3_M.png

 

The attached files are at 6K resolution and about 20 MB each.

Numerical indices designate the simulated color bit depth of the file.

 

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_3.png                 https://a360.co/3RD3BaV

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_4.png                 https://a360.co/4uKc1fd

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_5.png                 https://a360.co/4uMQN0j

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_6.png                 https://a360.co/4x1lvEj

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_7.png                 https://a360.co/3Q114Xk

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_8.png                 https://a360.co/4dKfEvI

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_9.png                 https://a360.co/4dYl19c

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_10.png               https://a360.co/4o5ioHs

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_11.png               https://a360.co/4x1ml3V

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_12.png               https://a360.co/4x4hn6m

Color_diagrams_AAAA_XYZW_16.png               https://a360.co/4dH9fRU

 

To be viewed on 4K and higher media devices (monitors, UHD TVs, projectors...) with reasonable performance, preferably with 10-bit color depth capability. For the best experience, use a stand-alone PNG viewer (e.g., GIMP) and set the native full-screen resolution. Download the files over a network where the cost is not a concern. The files are to be used for private, non-commercial purposes only.

 

Regards

MichaelT

MichaelT
Message 14 of 14

hfcandrew
Advisor
Advisor
Accepted solution

Now would it break your spirit to hear that I have bad eyes, and don't ever wear my glasses, and I use a 15 year old crappy monitor, and use the software 'flux' on all my computers so everything is blue light blocked.

 

With all that being said, I still appreciate your mad scientist aura, enthusiasm, and works of discovery that go miles over my head. ❤️