pressure pipe network with PVC Pipe and Mechanical Joint Ductile Iron Fittings

[Mathias_Riesner]

For municipal utilities it is common practice to install Mechanical Joint Ductile Iron Fittings in combination with PVC Pipe, Ductile Iron Pipe and even HDPE. Currently it is not possible to create a Pressure Pipe network that uses mismatched ID Materials.

In my content catalog and Parts List I have MJ Ductile Iron Fittings and Pipes in PVC, Ductile Iron, and HDPE in all sizes from 3" to 42". If I choose Ductile Iron Pipe everything works fine, but if I try to lay PVC or HDPE pipe in my drawing, Civil 3d is not able to find a matching fitting. This is apparently rooted in the requirement of a fitting that matches the chosen pipe in size as well as material.

Autodesk wrote under this link as follows. To Create a Pressure Network That Contains Pipes and Bends

5. On the Layout panel on the ribbon, specify the size and material for the pressure pipes. The pipes and bends will share the same material and nominal diameter.

6. Begin selecting points in the drawing. Draw straight segments to insert straight pipe segments, or enter C for Curve to draw a curved segment. After you select two points to insert the first pressure pipe, the compass appears and displays the angles of bends in the parts list that match the selected size and material.

While this requirement to match materials is useful with PVC pipes and glued joints, it is a complete nuisance when using common Mechanical Joint Ductile Iron Fittings because there, the material does not have to match in reality. Only the Diameter.

My suggestion would be to relieve the matching materials requirement and instead introduce a matching connection method requirement. This entails a second change because PVC pipes are usually interconnected via Bell and Spigot and mechanically to the MJ Fittings. Pipes in the content catalogs should have a dual connection option. This means a pipe in the content catalog should be created with 2 connection methods, which are either or. This way a pipe can, for example connect via Bell & Spigot to another pipe OR via Mechanical to a fitting.

PS: Mike_ADSK (Autodesk Support) is aware of the situation and could possibly explain further.

[manateejim]

This is a great Idea and would help our little 2 man County utility department.

[ChrisRS]

I am in agreement. There are or instances that should be addressed as well. In our area it is not unusual to see a PVC (C-900) pipe system transition to Ductile Iron Pipe (DIP) for a section that dips under a wash or culvert. Fire hydrant line are typically restrained joint DIP. Private water lines and Fire lines/loops are typically DIP.

[Mathias_Riesner]

Right on Chris, There are many ways pipe materials are being changed from PVC, to DIP, or even HDPE. Lets say you cross under a creek or other waterway. You might want to directional bore a section of your project, and so on and on. You will always have ample opportunities having to switch pipe materials and all are connected with ductile iron mechanical joint fittings. The matching material requirement is and stays a nuisance in my opinion.

[sybold]

i'm still hoping and dreaming to make this work in civil 3d!, mixed materials and sizes!

[Mathias_Riesner]

The dream is alive and has not yet died. Thanks for the picture, its a pretty colorful situation right there.

[ChrisRS]

Bump. Approaching 2 years since original post and nothing from Autodesk. As far as I am concerned, pressure pipes are in a pre-alpha state if they cannot handle multiple materials without extensive workarounds. 

[Mathias_Riesner]

Chris,

I am frustrated as heck about this. They keep spitting out new versions every year but nothing changes for the better. Now since 2018 we have to deal with sailing around those darn incompatibility issues but none of the issues I addressed here are getting better. Sometimes I wonder if anybody really uses this software. When I buy a car I am not being told a litany of workarounds to limp around in it. But for some reason Autodesk feels this is ok. 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for posting!  I ran into these same issues, and need to apparently create a PVC Pipe Library library, now...  but frustrated there still seems to be these Pressure Pipe Network incompatibility issues with Civil3D.  You would think that it would be something they'd address.

[sybold]

3 years and not a single change. 

[Anonymous]

Quick question, even though I digress... does Civil3D have the capability to calculate actual pressures in a network after the network is mapped in C3D, or does it only output the report as pay item?  I could not find an output similar to storm & sanitary, where pressures are calculated...

Or, does this mean that I have to create my own pressure calculator?  Just wanted to know what I'm in for...  I have a entire township to calculate, it would be okay I suppose, if only needed to calculate one portion... 

[ChrisRS]

@Anonymous,

Regarding "Make my own PVC Catalog":  As I recall Autodesk provided a a lot of new content a copuple of years ago, including PVC, The metric versions were released later.

Regarding Analysis Capabilities: Civil 3D Pressure pipes do not have pressure/flow calculation capabilities.

Catalogs and Parts list do not have any placeholders for Pipe Roughness or Fitting/Valve minor losses. 

I was optimistic when Autodesk acquired Boss International software in 2009 or 2010. (I cannot recall the name of their pipe modeling program.) I was vedisappointed when Pressure Pies was later released.

You might look at third party analysis programs.

I previously made other posts and Ideas about pressure pipe, but do not have time to look them up now. I will post links over the weekend.

[Anonymous]

@ChrisRS, I did a little more research on the issue since my earlier post.  It seems SSA might be capable of calculating the output... where you can actually submit roughness and head calcs... but I need to look into it further...   not sure if it fully functions properly and/or what the process..  I originally thought San Storm Analysis would only calculate Storm and Sanitary... for lack of time, will check into it this weekend also...

Thanks for posting a response!

[TimYarris]

The ability to create a pressure network parts list using parts from multiple catalogs has been implemented in Civil 3D 2021.2 Update:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/civil-3d/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2021/ENU/Civi...