Undo command is BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN

[Anonymous]

Approximately 25% of the time, the Undo command is simply not available, or only the last 2 or 3 commands are undoable. Also, certain commands are often missing from the Undo list (ie the commands I performed just before and after a certain action are listed, but one is missing) Is it just me?

(PS I haven't installed 2009 Service Pack 1, but I don't see this topic listed among the fixes)
3ds Max Design 2009 32 bit, Direct3d 9; Win XP SP2 32 bit with 3GB switch
(and no intellimouse)

[Anonymous]

We're still working on the problem, here are a couple of insights into the problem, but we don't have final answers yet. Perhaps this will trigger some ideas with you all and help us get a reproducible test case:
• It looks like one of the problem might be related to a special "post-Save" script one customer is using that triggers a garbage collector flush.
• Another issue is when deleting while being in object creation mode: it looks like an Undo item gets created while being in object creation mode, making the stack to be in a weird state.

[Anonymous]

My area of expertise: Low poly modelling & Animation Topic: Undo function not reliable Currently using 3dsmax2009
Having read through this thread it is clear that a little focus is needed. Having used 3dsmax since its release, I'm not surprised that I've not had a problem with the undo function until recently. This reason for this is simply because of the scope of my work. Until fairly recently I've been involved in asset creation for games; low poly meshes and texture work over a wide range of content. During that time I don't believe I've ever known the undo function to be anything other than reliable. My colleagues experience is the same. I do understand, as many of you do, that some actions are simply not undo-able, that's a given, but now I'm working intensely in animation I'm finding that the undo function is breaking regularly. When I rough-out animations in the viewports, the undo function is solid and reliable. When I refine the animations through Trackview, the undo function becomes wildly unreliable. Sometimes I can work a whole day, during which time the undo function works perfectly, but on other days (other scenes, similar content) the undo function is diabolically unreliable. Given my personal experience I would have to point the finger at Trackview as the source of my woes.
As for providing Autodesk with a *reproducible* example, I don't believe this possible in my case. As soon as I notice the undo is not working I either (1) save scene before closing/re-opening 3dsmax, or (2) close 3dsmax without saving the scene and re-opening 3dsmax and load a previously saved scene. Thereafter the undo function can break at any time.
If Autodesk are reading this, as they should, they need to be focused. With the right focus you can arrive at the right solution(s). It is not enough that they ask for *reproducible* examples. They need to be asking us the right questions. This is seriously tarnishing my opinion of 3dsmax and although it pains me to say this, I will be looking to other 3D solutions in the event that this matter is not resolved soon.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the information. If this was easy to resolve, it would be by now. Our current approach takes time to collect enough meaningful data to give us some useful insights. We are dialoging with specific customers that have the problem. We can't dialog with everyone because we have limited resources.

[Anonymous]

We're still working on the problem, here are a couple of insights into the problem, but we don't have final answers yet. Perhaps this will trigger some ideas with you all and help us get a reproducible test case:
• It looks like one of the problem might be related to a special "post-Save" script one customer is using that triggers a garbage collector flush.
• Another issue is when deleting while being in object creation mode: it looks like an Undo item gets created while being in object creation mode, making the stack to be in a weird state.

The second item sounds promising. In my case it must be triggered by an every-day set of circumstances, because I do not have anything too unusual in my setup: no render scripts, no third party plugins, etc.

And there seems to be 2 different types of problem: the empty undo stack, and the stack that is not empty but is wrong. I have the empty stack happen a LOT--maybe a few times a day. But I think that is because I do a lot of dragging materials between slots in the Material Editor, which seems to be quite prone to blanking out the stack. (As I mentioned earlier in this thread, dragging from a "none" slot to clear another slot will do it every time).

[jens.diemer]

Thanks for the information. If this was easy to resolve, it would be by now. Our current approach takes time to collect enough meaningful data to give us some useful insights. We are dialoging with specific customers that have the problem. We can't dialog with everyone because we have limited resources.

It would be usefull if autodesk used a public bug tracker, like nvidia http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php

[Anonymous]

Disabling autosave seems to have reduced the occurrences of this (so far).
Downside = no autosave. I'll post again tomorrow if the results are still the same.

Bumping up the frequency and count of autosaves does seem to make this happen more often.
Our animators are triggering the bug more frequently than others - possibly due to the volume of undo's in their working method.

Can’t say if it's specific commands, sequence of commands or overall number of commands that might be triggering this
or
Commands executed during an autosave might not stick or if the undo stack is inadvertently reverting back to last autosave?
or ?

Our animators are attempting to adjust their working methods around this - moving things back into place vs. undoing to avoid this.
FWIW - We've seen this occur with both biped and custom rigs.

[JohnPhillips3980]

Interestingly enough, a co-worker uses autosave and had this same greyed out undo problem pop up a month or so ago. I've yet to see it.

Same systems, OS, version, same install options.

Use cntrl-s at good stopping points

Disabling autosave seems to have reduced the occurrences of this (so far).
Downside = no autosave. I'll post again tomorrow if the results are still the same.

Bumping up the frequency and count of autosaves does seem to make this happen more often.
Our animators are triggering the bug more frequently than others - possibly due to the volume of undo's in their working method.

Can’t say if it's specific commands, sequence of commands or overall number of commands that might be triggering this
or
Commands executed during an autosave might not stick or if the undo stack is inadvertently reverting back to last autosave?
or ?

Our animators are attempting to adjust their working methods around this - moving things back into place vs. undoing to avoid this.
FWIW - We've seen this occur with both biped and custom rigs.

[Anonymous]

Disabling autosave seems to have helped a bit. No additional occurances of this today.

Before the disable switch was thrown, the crew starting using holding / fetching instead of using undo to get around this.

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that it has something to do with the track view.

More specifically, when deleting keys in the track view.

I'll try HundredMonkeys' tips and disable the auto backup feature.

Will post back with results.

Good luck to autodesk in fixing this.

[Anonymous]

No undo problem until I animate things. Once I start creating keyframes, undo diabling itself. I never have the problem out of animation process. Please find the solution, max2009 is about a year old now and it s a really IMPORTANT problem ! This sould be priority number one for all 3ds max coders.
thanks

[Anonymous]

Tried disabling autosave. No luck.

Autodesk, seriously!! Get it together.

The last few days I've allso had a few crashes when trying to undo.

I'll keep trying to reproduce the bug and will post the moment I find something.

It's a computer goddammit. There ain't nothing random 'bout it!!

[Anonymous]

as someone who uses 3dsmax all day everyday for my firm i can say that it is really starting to get to the point where i can't seem to ever get into a 'comfort' zone with this software where i can enjoy a days work and feel like i've accomplished some solid work by quitting time. there are just far too many things that go wrong and this 'undo cmnd' problem is but one example. i used to work with microsoft office, then photoshop, and then autocad and i put in the time to learn them correctly and it payed off and i was able to work effectively and produce great stuff. not so with max and i think i've put in double (if not triple) the hours to learn it correctly.

i just wanted to use this thread to voice my similar feelings and ask autodesk to get this software together in a stable format for the 2010 release. The people who use it professionaly need to be able to work with it all day, and yes push it to the 'max' and not be afraid every 10 minutes that its all going to meltdown.

[Anonymous]

I used max9 long time even while being on subscription. Max2008 i didn' even install.
When using the 2009 i hated it from the start, i have load times of more then 12MINUTES for a scene that loads in 60secs on max9 WHY?
Undo buffer same, in max 9 never a problem. I honestly don't know what they even imporved in 2009? Besides the viewcube which you need to uninstall or max is even slower. I am seriously thinking of stopping my subscription.
PS: any links toward a solution for the extreme slow max2009?

[Anonymous]

IMOP,
This is appearing to be a trend. All software is taking this path. Expand on the old platform and just call the tough problems to fix "legacy issues". Yeah, my undo doesnt seem to behave either but saving often and icrementally is the way to go. Trust me, if you think 3ds max 2009 is bad, try Corels suite of apps....... wow theres a level of hell best left unexplorered LOL. Seems Adobe is going the same way. In Autodesks defense, however, they seem to have the best error handling and customer support out there, I think someone mentioned politics earlier? It seems to be the case. I hope it doesnt get any worse. "Stick with the Devil you know.............."
Best regards,
Andy

[Anonymous]

here the undo fucntion is broken too... SP2 coming up soon?

[Anonymous]

In Max 2008 I ran into this problem within the first 10min of working on a file constantly and no matter how often you save you're going to get caught and lose work. It happened so frequently I went back to working in Max9.

We made the jump to Max 2009 at work and it happens less frequently but I find myself closing and restarting Max about 5 times a day or more because of undo. It's never something I can repro since it just something that happens at seemingly random times.

[Anonymous]

The SP1 pack should cut out most of these problems. The undo problem is an intermitent known bug that is on the snagging list at Autodesk so I'm told.

Having used the software for over 15 years it can be a royal PITA at times with some of these annoying bugs.

Max is like life...it aint perfect unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

The SP1 pack should cut out most of these problems...

Can you give some examples? I read through the readme file and nothing on the "Issues Addressed By SP1" list was anything I cared about; so I never installed it. But if it solves other issues that are not on the list I should probably do it.

[Anonymous]

OK so back to the original topic...it just happened again. I came in this morning, launched Max, and did the following:
- unhid some layers
- saved a render preset (environment only)
- loaded a scene material into an editor slot
- checked the reflection map on (flat mirror)
- selected a camera
- turned Autokey on
- began to animate the camera by moving and rotating
- created 6 new animation keys, each with position and rotation, every 100 frames from 100 to 600
- advanced the time to 700, rotated the camera, realized i had rotated about the wrong axis
- tried to undo, but Max simply de-selected the camera

So evidently all the animation from the moment I turned on Autokey is lost from the undo stack.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, the problem is indeed random though we've collected enough data from special builds to pursue some fixes. It seems associated with the MAXscript garbage collection process. We're sending the fix out to some select customers to see if it works before taking it any further. Sorry this is taking so long. It is a tough one to resolve.