Persistent modeling crashes with 2017

Anonymous · ‎10-10-2016

I've been giving Max 2017 another go since installing SP3. Unfortunately, I'm still seeing lots of random modeling crashes. Mostly when using snapping in subobject mode in orthographic view. Max will freeze for a few seconds and crash, but it allows me to save a recovery file, so no work gets lost.

Still, it is deadly for the workflow.

I've been sending reports every time and making sure these are marked with my email address. Can someone at the Autodesk end look into them and let me know what they think?

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎01-09-2017

Hello @pokoy,

You're absolutely right, it's frustrating and I will bring it up again tomorrow during my team meeting. I can't reveal release dates on fixes but I understand the concern absolutely. I'm sort of in the middle here but I'll do everything I can. I sincerely wish you a Happy New Year as well.

Best Regards,

Anonymous · ‎01-10-2017

@Alfred.DeFlaminis you strike the right tone, as always, but it's still basically too late. It's been almost a year now. Max 2017 is nearing its life cycle. Max 2018 is around the corner. For the first time since 2008, I've been forced to skip an annual version altogether because it doesn't work. Many people are in the same situation. And as @pokoy points out, this is the best illustration yet of how deeply flawed the rental model is.

I remember penning an article a while ago (when Adobe switched) and warning exactly about this risk: That once rental had become the only purchase option, companies with captive markets like Autodesk would be free to radically shrink development teams, sit back and cash in, however broken their products. We've just seen this happening. I'm glad I didn't switch to rental and feel vindicated in my decision never to do so in the future.

alexnode · ‎01-10-2017

It is worrying, How AD can fix the 2017 problems release 2018 and keep on top of the new windows updates . The windows 10 creators update seems very 3d and scary for 3ds max. I can hold back the windows update for a bit but there are security risks too if i defer windows updates. I am glad that i have the ability to go back to 2016, and feel very sorry for studios that have the rental model.

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎01-10-2017

Hello @Anonymous,

I do want to help in any way possible. I can only suggest to start a new thread or continue an existing thread on that topic if you want to maximize the exposure of your feelings on this. If you feel strongly about this it will get more attention as a thread than as a comment buried deep in another thread about something else. I will continue to report everything I can, of course. In the meanwhile, this crash may be related to isolation mode. Do you ever experience this crash outside of isolation mode?

@alexnode,

I'm happy that 2016 is working well for you on W10, but just remember that it's technically not a supported or certified OS for Max 2016. Should be fine though, most of the problems I've seen in the past are related to Windows Defender which is easy enough to fix if the new update resets the exclusions again like AU did.

Best Regards,

Anonymous · ‎02-07-2017

Hi Community.

I have just overcome my problems with 3ds Max 2017 crashing.

Originally I thought i had a problem with Windows 10. So i re-installed a fresh version of Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit.

I then continued to Install 3ds Max 2017 - along with each service pack in turn. Followed by Hotfixes.

Then i re-installed Vray 3.40.03

All seemed ok , until i started again with screen freeze, especially when moving objects about. There were no clear cut case of when the software locked up.

So- assuming it would be a graphics card issue, i re-installed my Nvidia driver to a version that was "operational" last October (2016)

No solution.

After a very long test and trial process - i finally figured that by changing the 3ds Max 2017 Display Driver to Nitrous (Direct3D 9.0 - Nvidia Quadro K500) solved my problem from the "recommended" Nitrous Direct3D 11 driver.

My system specs are:

Windows 10 Professional

Intel Xeon CPU E5-2687W 0 3.10Ghz

32 GB Ram

2 x Nvidia Quadro K5000 in SLi configuration.

Software running:

3ds Max 2017

Vray 3.40.03

No other software installed - purely a render PC.

So far no lock ups - and the system again is stable running the latest NVidia drivers.

Hope this helps.

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎02-07-2017

Hello @Anonymous,

It's true that helps quite a bit. I did mention it early in the thread but it bears repeating. Kudos.

Best Regards,

pokoy · ‎02-08-2017

Switching from Nitrous DX11 to DX9 also means that you'll loose the fast viewports in 2017 which was our main reason to use 2017 in the first place. I just tried that and it's awfully slow with our models but it may work for simple modeling, so thanks for the pointer.

No official word on a Service Pack / Product Update that would fix this (and some other critical bugs) for 2017 so far. I guess there's no point in asking for it anymore.

Anonymous · ‎02-08-2017

Alfred, Thank you - yes - after work i trolled through the forums and spotted your comment.

Thanks for the feedback

Graham

Anonymous · ‎02-08-2017

Pokoy

Thank you for your feedback.

I must point out - which i missed in my earlier post, was that i re-downloaded the lastest DirectX software from Microsoft.

Direct X11 should work perfectly - all the latest software installed - and still freezing means something is not right, and software is not talking to each other as is should.

Windows 10 --> DirectX11 ?

Direct X --> Nvidia ?

Nvida -->> 3ds Max ?

Graham

companioncube · ‎02-08-2017

out of curiosity graham, which motherboard and bios are you using?

Anonymous · ‎02-08-2017

Hi Companioncube

The PC is a custom built PC from PCSpecialist (UK)

Motherboard is:

ASUS P9X79 WS

Bios Version:3401

Thanks

companioncube · ‎02-08-2017

I strongly recommend upgrading your bios, it can make a huge difference. There have been 9 bios updates for your board, bringing it up to 4802, since your current version which means there were a lot stability and compatibility fixes. bios updating gets overlooked by most people but it can make a difference.

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎02-08-2017

Hello @pokoy,

I truly regret that I cannot share the release schedule for updates and service packs. If it means anything, I've been talking internally about this thread and a few others as much as humanly possible. All I can officially tell you is that it's undergoing testing currently. I realize you are tired of hearing that and I empathize.

@Anonymous,

I am very grateful to have users such as yourself that post the results they find and offer tips. Thank you so much for being so community minded. Kudos.

@companioncube,

This is a great point and having a current BIOS is always important, this is excellent advice and thank you. Kudos.

Best Regards,

Anonymous · ‎02-08-2017

hi Alfred, i've had a lot of problems modelling with 2017 too and most of the times it crashed while i was using the snap, doesnt matter if i was pulling vertexes or moving objects, when i use the snap i'm pretty sure i'll have a crash soon, it even happened that it crashed as i pressed the S key to activate the snap (btw midpoint snap seems to be gone for good), all of these problems happened on a new machine with windows 10 fully patched, 3ds max fully patched, updated drivers and bios, that's my new workstation so i thought i could give a chance to 2017 using my old workstation that has windows 7 as os thinking that 10 could have been the problem but i experienced the same problems and behaviors i had on windows 10, honest i cant work with a release that's able to crash that often so i had to revert to an older version of max

according to me the problem is not related to windows 10 since 2017 has exactly the same behavior on 7 but i did notice that most of the times it crashed i was using the snap (more than 70% of the time) and i would look there first, thank you for your kindness and your time

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎02-16-2017

Hello @Anonymous and welcome to the community,

I apologize for my absence, I was on vacation for a week. Thanks for your patience while I was away. I am scrambling right now to catch up but I wanted you to know that I wasn't ignoring your message. I appreciate the time you took to type the information that you have here.

I do have an issue logged about snapping causing crashes. It seems to be related to isolation mode for some people, but it's a known issue that is currently not addressed in a patch. You are correct that it happens on W7 and W10, and weirdly it seems to affect some people more than others. I will update the tracker again about this, and thanks for reporting the details.

Best Regards,

Anonymous · ‎02-17-2017

Latest Update.

Following on from my previous posts:

I have updated my bios - thank you Companioncube and others. I would certainly say updating the bios is nature's laxative at the very least 😉

Having updated the bios - i have reverted to:

Nitrous (Direct3D 11.0 Feature Level 11) Recommended.

i have been working with Max now for a few hours and so far (fingers crossed) it has not locked up or froze.

I must add - very importantly ?? - that i have updated VRAY to the lastest build of 3.50.03 (February 2017)

Whether this has something to do with it - shaders in viewports ??

I will report back if anything changes.

All the best people

Graham

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎02-17-2017

Hello @Anonymous,

Thank you for the update. I use Vray at home and I have a demo installed at work and I am unable to repro these crashing issues, so I'm not totally convinced that Vray is to blame for these problems, though many of the users in this thread do use it. There are 2 issues in particular that show in many users crash logs and those are almost certainly the reason for the crashes, but I am very happy that you've posted more information.

Although, the updated BIOS and the lack of crashes do coincide pretty closely. Just to be thorough, I checked your logs but I don't see any submitted from your forum email address. Thanks again for the update.

Best Regards,

Anonymous · ‎02-20-2017

Alfred,

The error descriptions from the Event Viewer.

Hope this helps somewhat

All the best

Graham

The description for Event ID 3 from source NVWMI cannot be found. Either the component that raises this event is not installed on your local computer or the installation is corrupted. You can install or repair the component on the local computer.

If the event originated on another computer, the display information had to be saved with the event.

The following information was included with the event:

NVWMI - Windows Logon User Interface [c:/windows/system32/logonui.exe] was launched and [Windows Logon User Interface] profile was applied

the message resource is present but the message is not found in the string/message table

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fault bucket 129344023940, type 5
Event Name: AppHangB1
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: 3dsmax.exe
P2: 19.51.835.0
P3: 584141b4
P4: 4068
P5: 134217984
P6:
P7:
P8:
P9:
P10:

Attached files:
\\?\C:\Users\Graham_Zeon\AppData\Local\Temp\WERF5F6.tmp.appcompat.txt

These files may be available here:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\AppHang_3dsmax.exe_3da8f655dad072a29916fc6419d5551ddb8130a3_847e82e5_1bca1044

Analysis symbol:
Rechecking for solution: 0
Report ID: 446de9eb-e954-11e6-99fa-60a44c21bff9
Report Status: 0

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The program 3dsmax.exe version 19.51.835.0 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed. To see if more information about the problem is available, check the problem history in the Security and Maintenance control panel.
Process ID: 1c04
Start Time: 01d27d5f77c3949a
Termination Time: 47
Application Path: C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2017\3dsmax.exe
Report Id: 446de9eb-e954-11e6-99fa-60a44c21bff9
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

- System

- Provider

[ Name] Application Hang

- EventID 1002

[ Qualifiers] 0

Level 2

Task 101

Keywords 0x80000000000000

- TimeCreated

[ SystemTime] 2017-02-02T14:31:35.671171600Z

EventRecordID 2412

Channel Application

Computer DESKTOP-E0USL1H

Security

- EventData

3dsmax.exe
19.51.835.0
1c04
01d27d5f77c3949a
47
C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2017\3dsmax.exe
446de9eb-e954-11e6-99fa-60a44c21bff9

55006E006B006E006F0077006E0000000000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Binary data:

In Words

0000: 006E0055 006E006B 0077006F 0000006E
0010: 0000

In Bytes

0000: 55 00 6E 00 6B 00 6E 00 U.n.k.n.
0008: 6F 00 77 00 6E 00 00 00 o.w.n...
0010: 00 00 ..

Anonymous · ‎02-20-2017

Froze Again.

In view port i activated (from) :

[+][VrayPhysicalCamera003][User Defined][Edged Faces]

to

[+][VrayPhysicalCamera003][User Defined > drop down > Materials > Realistic Materials with Maps] [Default Shading]

System hung : Event Viewer Details Below.

Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered.

Fault bucket LKD_0x141_Tdr:6_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys, type 0
Event Name: LiveKernelEvent
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 1134afa8-52b8-4bea-a7b9-9eeee4da2c98

Problem signature:
P1: 141
P2: ffffe403e0b504a0
P3: fffff8040ea35c24
P4: 0
P5: 0
P6: 10_0_14393
P7: 0_0
P8: 256_1
P9:
P10:

Attached files:
\\?\C:\WINDOWS\LiveKernelReports\WATCHDOG\WATCHDOG-20170220-1021.dmp
\\?\C:\Users\Graham_Zeon\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-440535968-0.sysdata.xml
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER2320.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml
\\?\C:\Windows\Temp\WER435A.tmp.csv
\\?\C:\Windows\Temp\WER436B.tmp.txt

These files may be available here:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive\Kernel_141_90d3e4c6d907dd5135e5f7956fb4a84e6dba94a_00000000_cab_18c244b2

Analysis symbol:
Rechecking for solution: 0
Report ID: 51860b7a-f756-11e6-9a0d-60a44c21bff9
Report Status: 0
Hashed bucket:

Fault bucket , type 0
Event Name: LiveKernelEvent
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: 141
P2: ffffe403e0b504a0
P3: fffff8040ea35c24
P4: 0
P5: 0
P6: 10_0_14393
P7: 0_0
P8: 256_1
P9:
P10:

Attached files:
\\?\C:\WINDOWS\LiveKernelReports\WATCHDOG\WATCHDOG-20170220-1021.dmp
\\?\C:\Users\Graham_Zeon\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-440535968-0.sysdata.xml
\\?\C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\Temp\WER2320.tmp.WERInternalMetadata.xml

These files may be available here:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportQueue\Kernel_141_90d3e4c6d907dd5135e5f7956fb4a84e6dba94a_00000000_cab_0d0e2330

Analysis symbol:
Rechecking for solution: 0
Report ID: 51860b7a-f756-11e6-9a0d-60a44c21bff9
Report Status: 4
Hashed bucket:

Alfred.DeFlaminis · ‎02-22-2017

Thank you very much for the information @Anonymous. There are two main issues at play here and both of them are undergoing testing currently. I appreciate your contribution here, thank you.

Best Regards,