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new layer manager problems

15 REPLIES 15
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Message 1 of 16
fael097
8010 Views, 15 Replies

new layer manager problems

hi, the reason I'm here is to complain about the new layer manager.

 

don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a layer manager that supports nested layers, and I always used plugins for that, so I got really excited with the new manager.

 

but I'm complaining about how poorly made it was, clearly no effort was put into it, I don't understand the reasons it was released like this.

 

but don't take me wrong, this isn't a rage thread, I want to point some (many) things that are bothering me, to see if there are any workarounds, solutions, if this is happening to everyone, because sure they look like bugs, or even if it's me who doesn't quite get that tool.

 

1.layers disappear when I open some scenes. doesn't happen to all of them, but some, like half of them. when I open the file, layer manager is empty, doesn't even have the default layer. I have to refresh it's window somehow, like switching to hierarchy view and back to layers.

 

2.right click doesn't do the trick. say you right click a layer to open it's context menu, and rename, delete, do whatever you want to that layer. it won't work, it will open the menu as if you right clicked an empty space in the manager. in order to do so, you have to left click a layer to select it, and then right click. you may say it's intentional, but it's not very intuitive, and really pointless, so probably a bug.

 

3.no keyboard shortcuts. simple as that, you can't copy, paste, even though I'm not sure why you would want to copy a layer, but still, delete won't work aswell, and that I caught myself trying to delete layer through the keyboard many times.

 

4.renaming the layer will rename every single item on it. well, this doesn't happen all the time, but sometimes, when I select a layer, it selects all objects it contains, and I couldn't unselect them, except by selecting another layer, and that would select it's own items aswell. sometimes it doesn't happen, maybe if you refresh, I don't know, but it gets annoying.

 

5.freezes. from time to time I'm managing layers, creating new ones, renaming, moving, etc, and max freezes. for like 15-30 seconds. there's no specific reason, but apparently it just freezes as you're using it.

 

6.after renaming a layer, clicking another layer will expand it. since I installed max 2015, I've been doing a lot of layer management, as you might guess. and this was frustrating as I was mass renaming layers in one scene, and right after I renamed a layer, I clicked another one to rename it aswell, and it instantly expanded a layer containing a hundred items or so, every time.

 

7.undo. one of the few keyboards shortcuts that works in the layer manager, but not quite. if you rename a layer, and then press undo, it won't go back to the name it was before, but it will undo another action. apparently undoing doesn't affect layer naming. it does affect object naming though, since you will end up physically renaming the object itself.

 

8.moving objects through layers. when you try dragging an object from one layer to another, a yellow straight arrow appears, and if you drag a little more, a blue curved upwards (or downwards sometimes) arrow will show up. you would guess the yellow arrow is to move that object directly to the layer you're pointing, and the up arrow would move the object one nest level up. but both blue arrows do exactly the same thing as the yellow, they move your selected object to the layer you're pointing. if you put an object on top of another one, arrows still appear, but releasing the button won't drop it into that object's layer, it will do nothing.

 

9.moving objects again. happens only sometimes also. when I select multiple objects, then I click on top of one of them and drag to move to a different layer, if I click on the first object I selected to drag, it will only move the first one, even though all of them are selected. 

 

I could even point some ui bugs, like column arrangement, resizing, etc, but I'll just focus on those.

15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
fael097
in reply to: fael097

10.focus loss. if I click on an object rather than a layer, the highlight becomes gray, rather than blue, and mouse wheel scrolling stops working. I have to middle click inside the layer manager so it gets focus again, making scrolling to work again, highlight becomes blue, etc. but every time i click an object, that happens. focus goes to the modifier panel

Message 3 of 16
spacefrog_
in reply to: fael097

Looks like a great list for improvements:

 

Don't know if there'S already an entry over at the uservoice for layer manager improvements/small annoying thing. If not, i think creating one would be good, or adding to some existing entry in the other case...


Josef Wienerroither
Software Developer & 3d Artist Hybrid
Message 4 of 16
Anonymous
in reply to: spacefrog_

Outliner seems to work without problems in the 2015 trial, can't see why anyone in their right mind would want to switch to the AD method.
Judging by recent feedback it's primitive, unfinished, and unusable, turning down Pier Janssen's offer of help in layer management development seems to have been a bad move, no surprises there.

 

Waiting on Outliner 3.0.

Message 5 of 16
jens.diemer
in reply to: Anonymous

Some of the problems here, is because of the menu option "Select / select children"

e.g.: renaming: If "select children" is on, than the objects in a layer are selected by clicking on the layer. So Layer+objects will be renamed.

But this is not what the user expected and should be changed, isn't it?

Jens

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://github.com/jedie/3dsmax_bugs | https://github.com/jedie/3dsmax_patches
Message 6 of 16
wimmer_simon
in reply to: fael097

I totally agree. The idea of the new layer manager is just so old but the work you did is worse than the old one. Everything you need to have a good workflow is just missing, features are broken.

11. Please fix the problem that sometimes the shortcuts in the main 3ds max get disabled till you search and cancle the search inside the layer manager.

12. Since the new layer explorer i can't search in an other scene explorer without a downtime of about 20 seconds.

13. When you select the 0-Layer (default) you can move it into another layer by rightclick - add selection - selected... But you can't get out of it anymore.

14. Please save settings for each layer. When i hide/freeze/etc a parent layer each child should get this new state, but when i enable it again i like that each child gets the state from before. When i hide a parent with already hidden children and unhide it EVERY child is visible ... completely unusable.

15. Renaming is such a mess. Sometimes you can't use the arrows to move to the end of the name. When you rename by doubleclick and you click onto another layer you will expand that layer.

16. Please bring the simple features back like "move selected objects to layer". A click through 2 rightclick menus is not worth the time.

17. Please make it possible to change the color of the line background. And please let us choose if we want an italic font for hidden layers. If you have a look at the old layer manager you will see that it is much easier to look at and much clearer.
Message 7 of 16
senorpablo
in reply to: wimmer_simon

There's nothing you can do but laugh now! Just another example of Autodesk "improving" something by removing crucial functionality.

 

Based on the number of updates in Max nowadays I'd guess there are about two programmers left on the Max team. 

Message 8 of 16
Anonymous
in reply to: fael097

I have problem with #2 . And mine is even worse.

 

When right click on layer I get options as if I clicked on empty space there. Even if I left click on layer first and then right click.

 

I can not delete layer!

 

Can someone suggest any solution? I have would like to use Outliner in 3dsmax 2014 but it somehow got bugged after I docked it on left side and is not showing anymore...

Message 9 of 16
Steve_Curley
in reply to: Anonymous

Make sure the Layer is empty and it is NOT the current layer (blue icon to the left of the name).
Remember to search the forums first - this issue has already been discussed at length here.

Max 2016 (SP1/EXT1)
Win7Pro x64 (SP1). i5-3570K @ 4.4GHz, 8Gb Ram, DX11.
nVidia GTX760 (2GB) (Driver 430.86).

Message 10 of 16
Anonymous
in reply to: Steve_Curley

 #18.  When merge from file to file, we loose all layer's hierarchie. Empty layers are deleted, but it's fine. But when layer2 is children of layer1, after a merge layer won't have a parent.

 

 

 Before_merge.JPG =merge all=> After_merge.JPG

 

Layer Explorer could have been a such powerfull update witch has been transformed into an unproductive one.

 

-pingus-

TATproductions

Message 11 of 16
Anonymous
in reply to: Steve_Curley

Not being funny Steve, but how many versions of 3dsmax are required to fix these issues? Seriously? The new layer manadgement is a compleatr cockup and you know it!

Message 12 of 16
jens.diemer
in reply to: Anonymous

But hey, we get a new Extension pack... Why should we look into the past... Smiley Frustrated

Jens

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://github.com/jedie/3dsmax_bugs | https://github.com/jedie/3dsmax_patches
Message 13 of 16
Anonymous
in reply to: fael097

Hey while we're at it, I'd like to add a suggestion: DON'T USE Ctrl-C to select children!!!  When I'm renaming a few layers, it's a workflow enhancement to add a prefix like ENV_ to the front of a bunch of layers. SO: I type in ENV_, select it and copy it so I can quickly add the prefix to more layers. Except I can't do it any more...because Ctl-C means select children and it will do the crazy renaming of everybody on the layer....PLEASE fix this.

Message 14 of 16
Anonymous
in reply to: fael097

Hi 

 

Got a problem similar to 1. 

I have some layers that are not appearing on the list and objects not appearing in the layers.

The scene was originally 2014, I have tried moving all object to a new layer and merging to a new scene to no relief.

 

Not sure if I have missed something or it is a bug, either way very frustratinig and impacting on my work flow. 

 

Any suggestions are welcome

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Message 15 of 16
jens.diemer
in reply to: Anonymous

Maybe the same as: http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-3ds-max-design-general/max-2016-objects-not-visible-in-layer-m... ?

 

I have add a smal maxscript there to move objects to a new layer.

Jens

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://github.com/jedie/3dsmax_bugs | https://github.com/jedie/3dsmax_patches
Message 16 of 16
Anonymous
in reply to: jens.diemer

Thanks, that seems to have given me control of my objects again

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