Multiple 3ds Max instances open + Saving = Lag

[DGTLTWNS]

Hi,

I have a few reports of people with 3ds Max 2020, 2022, 2023 (haven't tested 2021) slowing down our workstations, when multiple instances of 3ds Max are open and (auto)saving.

I have recorded a video of this here: https://youtu.be/zzsiOCMhHr8

First part of the video is me saving with only one instance open. Second part (00:18) is with a second file open in another instance. As you can see my workstation grinds to a halt and my cursor is barely moving. It seems I'm not the only one. This started happening a couple of months ago. Maybe a Windows update caused this or something. I looked at my Windows 10 update history in the last half year and most of them are .NET updates.

Can people with the same experience confirm, and could Autodesk investigate this please, because this is super annoying.

Thank you.

[info2V35E]

Windows cumulative updates that were released sometime in the last week or so.

[Diffus3d]

Updated post:  opening and saving.  My fault.  

[DGTLTWNS]

Ok so I've tried to put it into a survey that is quite easy to fill in and hopefully to analyze as well.

You can find it here: https://gyvfxu07d5o.typeform.com/to/IFYCBwC6

If I should add more questions or if something isn't working, let me know.

Please spread this link to as many people or colleagues that you know. I hope something is going to come out of it, otherwise I've spent my precious time making this instead of working. And something Autodesk should've done instead, but yeah these days you don't pay for service anymore.

Edit: I've added a few more questions. 

[Diffus3d]

Good work here.  Even though I don't have the problem, I filled it out as a control group because I do have a threadripper and W10.  Thanks!

Best Regards,

[darawork]

I, Myself, unfortunately don't have a Crazy fast "Thread ripper"... I wish I did, But very interesting thread:

Best regards, 

[jai]

Wow, this thread has exploded in the last week. I should update my older post where I stated upgrading to a Ryzen 5950X improved my issues.

it has not. Same old issue. While a second instance of Max is running and either of the instances does an autosave, windows grinds to a halt and becomes 100% unusable.

My secondary issue which I never experienced before Max 2023 is that if a backburner job starts on my workstation and I have the instance of max still open that sent the job, it REALLY dies. Like I have a 5 second window when the first frame finally finishes to get into task manager and change core affinity and untick a bunch of cores. This can take up to 15mins.

It completely destroys windows, mouse juddering, task manager stays white with no entries the whole time its rendering, can't click on anything, start menu won't open, browser is frozen. literally nothing I can do except wait for the frame to finish rendering and have a few seconds before the next frame begins to untick cores and get some functionality back.

But yeah the biggest daily workflow killer is if an autosave kicks off in the other max instance. I just have to stop work, tools down and wait which is just plain maddening and cumulatively a very costly thing for production.

Thanks for setting up the survey. I have passed to my colleagues with threadrippers too.

[RobH2]

I did the form as well, even as I don't have the lag problems you all have. But, it's good to cross reference machines that don't have the issue to look for clues. 

[info2V35E]

I would also like to clarify that I have this problem and I do not have a threadripper. Just a Ryzen

[DGTLTWNS]

Yes I can see that from the few responses already 2 claim Ryzen 9 5950X to also have problems. 

[Diffus3d]

Looks like the Ryzom 9 does support SMT as well as the Threadrippers.  I'm not saying that they are related, but it's interesting. 

I found this article.  It appears that some gamers are also complaining about SMT lag and performance.  Perhaps the problem is tied to the graphics pipeline somehow.  That might explain why having the extra instances of 3dsmax minimized in that Chaos thread had such an effect, because it wouldn't have been drawing the viewport when minimized.  I believe someone else was also mentioning problems during IPR which would also point toward gpu pipeline.  

But why would if affect some and not others.  Power maybe?  Something in Windows?  Specific driver versions?  Possibly motherboards running old versions of BIOS?  (That could easily be it.)

Still to early to call but some things seem to overlap.  The autosave locking up gets me, because that makes it seem like a Windows or hardware issue and not related to graphics at all.  I wonder if folks with problems have SSD's installed as SATA instead of AHCI and windows is forcing some kind of weird bottleneck on it.  

Did anyone with the problem install their SSD themselves?

[info2V35E]

I built my pc myself but can't really remember what I did...

How do I go about working out what you want to know? 😅

[Diffus3d]

I found this article which sort of defines things, can't say for sure if that's your problem though.  And then this one which explains them in greater detail for BIOS.  

In the bios you'll find a section for your SATA connections, and they'll be either set to SATA(IDE) or AHCI.  I think most SSD's can work with SATA(IDE), but all are meant for AHCI.  (afaik)  So the SATA(IDE) support is a sort of backwards compatibility thing and really has no point if something is compatible with AHCI. 

This setting must be set before installing windows, or it won't work properly and will cause weird problems in Windows.  Most BIOS default to IDE, at least, they did the last time I made a computer a couple years ago.  Pre-bought computers will have this set correctly, but gamers that don't read the manuals would likely not change it to AHCI and that might explain why they are having lag issues with SMT in steam threads.  I would imagine SMT requires as fast a connection to the hard drive as possible, and certainly SATA(IDE) is slower than ACHI. 

That doesn't mean that this is the problem, but it's a worrying symptom.  It certainly could be the cause of weird lags and slowdowns for no reason.  I know the first time I installed an SSD I got this wrong and had to reinstall windows.  

Best Regards,

[info2V35E]

Ok well I will consider a fresh install over summer when things are quiet and I will keep this in mind. Thanks, AJ

[Diffus3d]

It's worth looking in your bios just to see, you might have already got it set right.  But if it's not right, I'd start with that.  And that problem might not be the same one as others in this thread as well.  So hard to say...

Best Regards,

[hellojoea]

thanks for doing this, it really is appreciated.

Im going through it now, if im honest I've struggled with a few questions already and im not even half way through! I think I said before but im not very teccy when it comes to hardware!

Stuck on this question! - "Do you have onboard graphics and are they enabled?" How do I go about finding this out?!

[hellojoea]

one other thing, I have noticed I dont have problems with very small files. Ie files that I've just started working on that are almost empty or just have cad in them and maybe the start of a model. Im going to do a test now but I think I can have several instances of max open with small files and its fine, its only when you're opening larger more "complete" scenes that it lags/stalls. is that the case for everyone else?

[DGTLTWNS]

First check in your motherboard specifications on their website if it has an onboard or integrated GPU. If it doesn't than you can't have it enabled. If it has, then check in your BIOS settings somewhere depending on your motherboard if it is enabled or not. 

[DGTLTWNS]

No I started having it with even just a second empty 3ds max open as well. It used to be from the second I saved a file in the second instance.

[DGTLTWNS]

Well I turned off SMT in Ryzen Master, which halved my logical cores: Result is just the same, so Autodesk blaming SMT isn't it. I've tried this a couple of times already and it's just as bad if not worse.

In the beginning I said that for the problems to start, the second 3ds Max instance had to have saved a file, and that's how I could reproduce it. But that's not the case anymore it starts as soon as a second instance is open, nothing more. When you close the 3ds Max instance, the workstation also lags while closing (not saving!), until it's closed and everything returns back to normal.

My bios is up to date. I've updated it a couple of months back. I noticed my V-Ray benchmark improved with about 5-10% after the upgrade though but the lag is still there.

I created a script that cleans my %temp% folder as well because some reported that helped. Sometimes it did, but not for long, but since I created the script I haven't noticed any improvements.

Also AHCI is enabled from the start.

[Diffus3d]

Oh, do you think I work for Autodesk?  I am a volunteer who is just here trying to help.   I'm not blaming anything, I'm trying to find data to draw conclusions instead of just spitting into the wind.  Just sayin'.

If you want help from Autodesk, file a support ticket. 

Best Regards,