Multiple 3ds Max instances open + Saving = Lag

[DGTLTWNS]

Hi,

I have a few reports of people with 3ds Max 2020, 2022, 2023 (haven't tested 2021) slowing down our workstations, when multiple instances of 3ds Max are open and (auto)saving.

I have recorded a video of this here: https://youtu.be/zzsiOCMhHr8

First part of the video is me saving with only one instance open. Second part (00:18) is with a second file open in another instance. As you can see my workstation grinds to a halt and my cursor is barely moving. It seems I'm not the only one. This started happening a couple of months ago. Maybe a Windows update caused this or something. I looked at my Windows 10 update history in the last half year and most of them are .NET updates.

Can people with the same experience confirm, and could Autodesk investigate this please, because this is super annoying.

Thank you.

[darawork]

I also use a Copy and Paste Max Script, although it's freeware:

https://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/copy-and-paste-objects

(I love scripting 3DSMax :))

That's the beauty of Max, it's basically open-souce (to a legal degree, I have no respect for people who steal software). I too have been using 3DSMax since it was called 3DS Studio (because, that's essentially what it is, a blank studio). Then Viz or Design. I chose the darkside, Viz. While others went the way of Design, which would eventially branch off into Maya .

See if a stupid CPU wanted to prevent my fun? Shut down my enjoyment of a product that has paid the rent for 30 years? I'd soon have it fixed, if I knew how.

Regards,

[Diffus3d]

If you really want to find what is causing the problem, I think it's time to list details and post support tickets.  Eventually, it'll become obvious what everyone has in common.  This only works if everyone posts there data so similarities can be found.  A driver bug with NVIDIA was discovered this way in 2018, which was another major issue that everyone was blaming on Autodesk but wasn't caused by Autodesk.  I'm not saying that's the case here, but hopefully we'll find out.  

It's hard to guess why this might be happening, but I'd bet it's something to do with Windows.  A long timeout in an even timeframe like 10 minutes says to me "system timeout". 

I'll get the ball rolling. 

Severity of Issue = No problems, does not occur.  

CPU = Threadripper 3960

GPU = RTX 3070

Onboard graphics = None.  (Would disable in BIOS if was present.)

Memory = 64 GB

Network = Cabled, cat 6.  

Hard Drive = Samsung SSD 860 EVO 2TB primary (SSD)

Hard drive 2 = Seagate Exos 7E8 8TB (SATA)

Motherboard Make and Model =  ASRock MB TRX40 Creator

Windows = Win 10 Professional

Microsoft Account logged in = No.  (No MS Account.) 

Windows Telemetry settings = All but 6 disabled via WPD

BIOS = Up to date

BIOS TPM Setting = Disabled

BIOS Hyperthreading = Enabled

BIOS HD Setting = AHCI on SSD

Saving To:  Mapped Network Drive location.  

Plugins:
Vray 6 (currently inactive/no valid license)

Forest Pack

RailClone

Project Manager

GoZ

Phoenix FD 2.2

RappaTools 3

Substance

Substance Live Link

[darawork]

Aj, I like your approach dude. 

Quite frequently I have had to shut chrome browser when rendering in Corona with 64gbs of ram. Chrome was making errors happen in the Chaos Corona (9) Virtual Frame Buffer. It would do the same with Arnold or Scanline. Gpu memory outs. Internet pages contain big images sometimes, backgrounds or banners flashing, taking up CPU cycles, vRam.

Once closed, it cleared the pipes. 

I also know how to optimise scenes, 49 million polygon scenes running at 5fps.

Not because max knows how to deal with such heavy scenes normally, but a bit of tweaking. 🙂

Regards 

[darawork]

Personally, if I'd just sold out to buy AMD Ryzen CPUs, and they turned out to be useless. I'd be flashing their firmware to run the equivalent INTEL processes. You could fit three i9s on one Ryzen. Why not?

https://www.wepc.com/cpu/how-to/bios-update-for-ryzen-5000/

Reycle their revolutionary Architecture for good, not evil.

**Everything mentioned above may brick your computer, I do not work for Autodesk, and my opinions are my own. 

Regards

@Diffus3d "BIOS Hyperthreading = Enabled"? 

Are you currently running Multithreading/Hyperthreading/VirtualCore Enabled? That's against Technical Support protocol. 😂

[Diffus3d]

I suppose I am.  Works great for my uses.  1 min hd frames for animation, can't complain.  

Hopefully we find out in this thread from those with the problem what everyone has in common.  Disabling multithreading in BIOS and letting Windows handle it might be the solution for some folks.  

[gandhics]

We;;.. 49 million is nothing for max. I had scenes with 240 million poly. Mostly animated runs at 7-8fps 4 years ago.

[gandhics]

Back to OP.

I think it is something related to ThreadRipper. But, not the CPU itself, I have a few friends with various generations of TR. Some of them are not having this issue. I heard Max team also could not reproduce the issue internally. Could be a chipset issue?

[Diffus3d]

Am I the only person in the world who uses proxies?  I can't understand these scene sizes sometimes... 

[darawork]

Sorry to be monologuing, or perhaps it's a soliloquy. Who knows.

But sometimes I've seen AMD Integrated Graphics (Yes, they do that too, like Intel) steal memory too. Get to know your BIOS. It knows you. It would be rude not to introduce yourself. 😏

[Diffus3d]

I always assume that any integrated graphics cards is always disabled in the BIOS if someone is working in 3D.  Why would you ever want it to be active?  Could be a clue.   Will update my post to say no onboard graphics. 

[darawork]

@Diffus3d

NNever ever, sorry I stuttered. 

Never Ever use Proxies, or groups. To do so is a pure sign of disrespect for your hardware. 

If your current Workstation can't display all the different things in your Nitrous viewport, don't put them on the long finger. Phrase, look it up. 

Proxies, Xrefs, File Linking, DataSmith, or Revit live links .. Lazy ways out of a big scene tbh.

Keep all scenes, cameras, proxies, instances, live file links etc in one file. 

It's not too difficult.

Routinely, like you I have 800m Poly scenes that need to be reduced to run smoothly. Itoo forest pack gives about 15m polys for a small patch of lawn it needs to resolve at render time. And that's just one medium sized patch of grass.

Be frugal with new hardware, it's delicate, and gets upset easy. 

Especially if it says AMD on the box. 

Regards, 

[gandhics]

If you have a lot of animated parts, a proxy is not an option. We also had to override a lot of things in the assembled scene. How about last-minute changes? Having native data provide far greater flexibility. Then, optimizing anything requires resources and time. If your app just chew through everything, it saves so much time and money.

[Diffus3d]

Lol I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but I think so.   I think the most I ever had was 2 billion polys in a scene but it was all proxied, xref, etc. as you noted.  The scene itself was something like 90 MB and opened very quickly as long as Silentium was active to suppress all the warnings.  Ok... back to work. 

Best Regards,

[Diffus3d]

Fair enough, I don't think I ever made it to the level that you did @gandhics, so I expect you encounter things my small fish self does not.  We always used point cache for animated objects, worked great for the most part.  

[darawork]

Hi, 

Keep everything inside one scene file. We're not running Mac OS Snowleapard or some shiz. Easy. 

*Please Mark Resolved. 

[spacefrog_]

---

@Diffus3d wrote:

 The scene itself was something like 90 MB and opened very quickly as long as Silentium was active to suppress all the warnings.  Ok... back to work. 

---

That filled my heart with joy.
Glad do hear that some people still use Silentium nowadays or was this  a story of the past ?
Never really tested it  on current 3ds Max versions, so i dont know about possible incompatibilities etc..  ?

[Diffus3d]

For the past I don't know how many years, Silentium was a top 3 must have scripts for me behind soulburn and copitor.  Your work has saved me countless hours I am am very grateful.  Past few years I haven't been doing much rendering (doing a lot of realtime these days), but every viz project I ever worked on used Silentium.   Thanks again!

Best Regards,

[RobH2]

I miss Soulburn scripts. I wish I knew the true story of what happend to cause the rift. Copitor has been a godsend for me but I have never heard of Silentium. I'll check it out today. I too render less and less, instead shipping everything to UE to finish up and realtime render. It's a brave new world and so much different that what it was even a mere 5-years ago. 

[Diffus3d]

The only reason I put Silentium 3rd in my list is because I don't render much anymore, but if I did it would be #1 without a doubt.  Highly recommend.  

[info2V35E]

I cannot express how utterly frustrating this issue is.  I can't WAIT to be able to one day say goodbye to 3DSMax so that each and every year I don't have to deal with some new and seemingly unique issue that causes such frustration. 

Betweem all the crashing and this issue of lag I must have lost an hour of time today. 

It's not just that Max is unresponsive, it's that the entire workstation is now unusable for anywhere from 1 minute to 15 depending on scene complexity.