Mouse behaves erratically when moving objects

[julianmatias00]

The mouse behaves erratically when I drag and move objects far from the pivot point. High viewport FOV values seem to alleviate the problem.

[MartinBeh]

Just an idea:

What is the overall size of your scene, and where in 3d world space are those parts of your scene located that move so erratically? 

If you are very far from the origin, the 32-bit floating point precision that 3ds Max still uses for its coordinates can get too coarse and then you can get "jumpy" transformations.

Do you get the same issues in Orthographic view?

[julianmatias00]

Thanks for your time, Martin.

My model is almost in the scene origin, my Units Setups seems OK. I dont think is something related to that. 

 

Moving objects in orthographic view works fine and predictably, which aligns with the observation that low FOV values seem to reduce the problem.

Im using 3ds Max 2021.3

Thanks you again!

[MartinBeh]

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@julianmatias00 wrote:

 

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To be sure it is not scale related, you should adjust the "Origin" slider in the System Units Setup dialog until the "Distance from origin" value below says roughly 10759 (not sure from your tape measure screenshot whether these are system units or centimeters). The "Resulting Accuracy" below tells you the smallest position increment 3ds Max can store..

If this is all clean, maybe you could try to use the transform type in fields at the bottom center to adjust positions (maybe in combination with holding down Alt while dialing the spinner up/down) just to see whether it makes any difference.

[julianmatias00]

• The Origin Slider (as I’ve always understood it) doesn’t actually affect the scene, it’s just a calculator to estimate float accuracy at different distances from the origin. If I change the slider value and press "OK", the next time I open the dialog, it resets (which makes sense since it's not storing anything). I also read this for more details: https://help.autodesk.com/view/3DSMAX/2021/ENU/?guid=GUID-22D2D2B9-9A82-47FA-88DD-67B1A91E2337 

  "When you use the slider or the text field to enter a distance from the origin, the Resulting Accuracy changes to show what the round-off error will be at that distance. These controls don't change the unit settings in 3ds Max. They don't reflect the extents of the current scene, either."

  
  Please let me know if I miss understood something.
  
  

• As for the transform spinners at the bottom-right, yes, I use them (along with orthographic view) to move objects more precisely and predictably, especially since I can’t drag and move objects properly when they're far from the pivot. I’d like to know if this is a known bug, or if there’s a setting I can tweak to fix or avoid this behavior.

Thanks  again!

[MartinBeh]

Yes, it is a calculator that shows you the possible accuracy at a given distance from the origin. It does not affect the scene in any other way.

I just mentioned it as your screenshot showed the slider at the wrong distance.

But if the transform spinners work as expected, it is not about 32-bit float precision.

[julianmatias00]

I just read again your response about the Origin Slider, I had misunderstood your suggestion. This doesn't seem to be a precision issue: I have around 0.001 cm precision at the farthest point of my model (1 unit = 1 inch = 2,54cm)

[koletmolet8]

No its a wired mouse, but that's a good point. I'm thinking maybe just dirt or drivers out of date. I have my Laptop powered on again and nothing seems to be happening.

https://xender.vip/

[julianmatias00]

Wired mouse, drivers up-to-date. Tested on other resolutions without any changes. Also tested on a clean 3ds Max 2024 install, same behavior.

Thanks to everyone trying to help! If you need any specific info about my system or 3ds Max configuration, just let me know.

[MartinBeh]

I am confused. Why are there two users @julianmatias00 and @koletmolet8 responding in parallel, both referring to "my system"?

[casey_hawley · Accepted solution]

The reason the movement is wonky is because with snaps turned off, when you click to "grab" the object by its end, Max forces your control point to the pivot point of the object. So in essence you are moving the object from the pivot that is off-screen, which messes with our spatial awareness since we are used to moving an object at the point that we visually grab it. It's this perspective mis-match that makes it feel wonky.

This bugs me as well, so when I want to move something this way (without first moving the pivot), I turn on snaps to vertex. With snaps on, you will see a small plus sign appear on a vertex when your mouse is close to it. That plus indicates where your "grab" point will be when you click. This can be tricky, but typically works well. Often just a little viewport pan/orbit in order to better position the vertex you want to grab first is all you need. The added benefits are not having to faff around with the pivot point, plus being able to move/snap things more specifically.

Edit: Using the snaps technique above is most useful when coupled with the axis constraints.

[MartinBeh]

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@casey_hawley wrote:

The reason the movement is wonky is because with snaps turned off, when you click to "grab" the object by its end, Max forces your control point to the pivot point of the object. So in essence you are moving the object from the pivot that is off-screen, which messes with our spatial awareness since we are used to moving an object at the point that we visually grab it. It's this perspective mis-match that makes it feel wonky.

That is an excellent suggestion of what might be going on! You could try to use the Working Pivot feature (e.g. rt-click > Place Working Pivot) in order to place the pivot next to where you want to manipulate the object?

[julianmatias00]

I really appreciate your effort. This is a new workaround for the issue. As I mentioned, I’ve already found a few techniques — like orbiting the camera to bring the pivot into view, or using lower FOV / orthographic view. It seems there’s no proper fix yet.

I understand this is likely just "how viewport interaction / mouse / 3D objects work" and not something tied directly to the 3ds Max SDK or C++ code, which probably makes it difficult to fix. But still, the issue is there. Sometimes these workarounds don’t help, or you need to find yet another one. And sometimes, things need to work as expected.

I’d love for this topic to stay open to the 3ds Max dev team, in case they have something to add 😄

Thanks again, everyone!