3DS Max 2018 mental ray removed

[stephen.d.green]

Not entirely unexpected after it was removed from Maya, but confirmed on nvidia's page that Autodesk have decided to no longer bundle mental ray with Max 2018.

http://images.nvidia.com/content/technologies/advanced-rendering/pdf/354915-MentalRay-FAQ-Sheet-FNL-...

If you want it, you have to rent it from nvidia.

[Anonymous]

""I hope Autodesk has a new render engine coming out this year to replace the old Mental Ray, if not, I may just skip this year's release altogether, as I won't be able to render anything...

(Kind of raises the question, if Mental Ray and IRay are both gone, whats... going to be the primary render engine then?)""

Well, Scanline renderer, of course?!??!  😉

[companioncube]

Arnold is now the primary engine.  

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

It is Arnold.  It's going to be the default engine for many software titles such as Maya, AutoCAD, Max, etc.  

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

It's called making a joke.

I know very well which renderer "replaced" MR.

Point is, it's not, and this is from a budget&productivity perspective, a good trade-off for anyone dependent on Max.

The biggest flaw being the necessity to obtain additional Arnold licences at around $600+ for each Node you use. 

Now, this might not be a budgetary issue for medium to big studios, however, small studios and especially freelancers like me

can not really afford the $1000+ a year. And if your clients demand photorealism, which is almost standard nowadays, then you just can't compete

with bigger studios anymore and your clients go there instead. This whole Node-based pricing KILLS the VR & Digital Arts community in the long run.

It would be fairer to smaller studios or individual artists, IF the focus lied more on end user licenses / number of workstations manned.

In my case, i'm lucky i have pushed off investing in a new workstation and especially i would need one or two render nodes on top.

I can now wait and twiddle my thumbs as there isn't even clarification if and how the implementation will move forward over time, i.e.

are they serious to (and Solid Angle is owned by Autodesk) push through putting such a high price on network rendering while nobody can get around it any more, given all the realism requirements clients ask for. 

[Isaac_Zuniga]

There are ways that photorealism can be achieved without using pure raytracing methods. I like to call these methods "cheating raytracing" methods. While raytracing is as accurate as the render engine will allow, sometimes the render times will outweigh the benefits.

A little creativity with your renders can produce an almost equally-rewarding end result.

[Anonymous]

Yes, i'm not new to the topic. No matter how much i would optimize (or simulate) path- or raytracing in a given scene 

(and i would consider it standard to any professional CG artist to naturally optimize render time before eating through the cake)

there's AA, there's texture performance-load, high poly models, and some more. All things you have to balance in any case,

BUT if you render this heavily optimized setup, it still takes up production time AS YOU USE YOUR WORKSTATION/PC. And THAT is the point, and i can tell you, loads of freelancers and independent digital artists use and have to use additional render nodes to come anywhere near decent results at a reasonable cost/time budget. MR had no additional cost if you needed to throw in another PC or render blade, temporary or permantently. 

So either i pay for MR, or extra Arnold licences, if i want to stay productive OR i'll have to find a different solution to achieve the results i'm used to with the previous MR workflow without losing the workstation during rendering.

I would be happy, and i think it would be the fairest solution, if the same network render policies were put into use as they had been with MentalRay.

Or at least 2 or 3 nodes.  Then the gap between freelancer's cost versus the relative compared cost for a established studio with its own render farm would be more balanced.

[Isaac_Zuniga]

I'm sure other people feel your frustration, but this is not the place to do that. (There is a separate thread for people to solely share their thoughts about mental ray.)

If you would like your voice to be heard, try checking this out. It's worth a shot.

[Isaac_Zuniga]

Once again man, you have a chance to voice your thoughts here.

Coming on here to voice your frustration without taking action won't help your situation, short term or long term.

[jggorman]

NVIDIA has their own educational grants for Mental Ray: It's probably not cool to post a link here but it is in the bottom left of the MR tab on Nvidia's Advanced Rendering page.

[Isaac_Zuniga]

I'm fully aware of that man; I think others who are worried about the change may find that more interesting.

[jggorman]

Arnold is not ready for prime time. I developed that opinion when I could not properly render normal maps from Mudbox, yet in MR it worked perfectly.

[DigiTal0n]

ART does at least work through Backburner over a network with no issues that I found so far. It is all about the workflow, (Like most things). Sad that AD decided to just rip out something rather than let users know that it was coming.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @DigiTal0n,

You can still get it from NVIDIA for free, but network rendering now has license fees.  You don't need to live without Mental Ray if you love it, just download and install it.  

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

OK guys... time to learn Blender, i'm planning to continue to use the 2016/2017 3DSMax release for a couple of years and start to use Blender starting from small projects. During those 2 years, we complete the transition from Max to Blender.

I am a 3DSmax user since 1996 (it was 3DStudio): 20 years of licensing or subscriptions! ...but the new license "Strategy", the dropping of mRay and iRay and the new pricing are a joke. I got a small render farm with 6 machines so i neet to QUADRUPLICATE my budget to render with the same results in Max 2017 vs Max 2018!

I was an enthusiast Max user: i also teach Max in school some years ago, but now we are using Blender in the school.

Answer is simple: goodbie Autodesk

[DigiTal0n]

That part I knew, I was just commenting on same thing the other day. But, WHY is Autodesk seeming to take away options for network rendering? (At least the ones people have come to depend on.) Yes SL and ART still work through backburner. But if Autodesk is going to go with Arnold because Nvidia wants to start charging for Mental Ray use over a network, why would Autodesk then do the SAME thing? Why not include the ability to render with Arnold over a network without having to purchase MORE licenses to do it? Or, am I missing something?

[Anonymous]

Because we made a mistake... the correct sintax is AUTODE$$$K!

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

The Network licensing fee for Mental Ray (set by NVIDIA) is set at $395/machine/year.  You do not need to purchase a new copy of Max to use Max as a render slave, you just need to install but not activate it.  So there is no additional Max cost on your render farm.  I don't see how this equals a quadruple budget.  Please let me know if you have any questions.

Hello @DigiTal0n,

Autodesk bought Arnold to be used across a whole range of products such as Max, Maya, AutoCAD, etc.  I don't believe there is any unbiased renderer that isn't going with the render node pricing model at this point.  At least the Arnold licenses will also work as full production licenses for any application that has an Arnold installer.  There are plenty of other 3rd party renderers if you don't like Arnold though.  

Best Regards,

[Anonymous]

3DStudio Max subscription for 3 years, including MentalRay and iRay (2016-17-18) costs me about 1800€ = 600€/year.

3DStudio Max is now €1952/year, plus iRay and MentalRay pack for my 5 machines (€ 995/year) = 2947/year = 4.9 times my budget

3DStudio Max is now €1952/year, plus Arnold my 5 machines (€ 650+VAT/year for each slave) = 5917/year = 9.8 times my budget

You're right, i's not 3x my ld budget...it's much more.

Thanks

There is no valid solution to render farm is included in new release of Max (...scanline?  ..in 2018? or ART??).
What a shame.

I always think that Max is the best 3D package around, and still think the same, but (SUDDENLY) i'ts un-affordable for me and many single users or small companies.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @Anonymous,

There are other renderers which sell permanent render nodes such as Vray that you could also explore.  That would help keep the budget down long term.  It's a one time cost there and cheaper than the others.  

Best Regards, 

[dbhinnant]

Alfred is correct.  If you are going to stick with 3ds Max and buy licenses for network rendering V-Ray makes more sense.  Mental Ray looks cheaper until you find out that cost is annual.