Data Standard - Turn off automatic block attribute reading when open a drawing in AutoCAD

[smilinger]

With Data Standard, new drawings can be created from Vault directly, with properties, and then checked out in AutoCAD to edit.

However, if the user double-click the drawing and select check out directly from vault, and open the drawing in AutoCAD, Data Standard will first read the attribute values from the title block, which by the time have empty attribute values, then these empty attribute values will now overwrite those dwg properties I have entered in Vault. In the end, when the user clicks Save, the property values are empty! So the user is forced to enter these properties again.

This causes some confusion and frustration to the users. It also allows a user to edit the title block in an environment without Data Standard and open it again to overwrite attribute values back to properties, this is also what I want to avoid.

So I think we should have an option to disable it, in the Data Standard add-in configuration. So I can turn on this option, enforce the rule that all properties must be entered in Vault or Data Standard dialog, instead of the old way of block attribute editing, hence no more confusion.

[ihayesjr]

@smilinger 

Thank you for posting the idea but I would like to get some clarity.

You should be able to avoid this issue by using the Sync Properties command in the Vault client prior to opening the drawing in AutoCAD.

You could also select Update Properties after opening the drawing in AutoCAD to get the values from Vault to be populated in the title blocks.

Have you tried these?

[smilinger]

@ihayesjr

The Sync Properties command is not relevant, the drawing is already 'synced' before it's opened in AutoCAD.

Update Properties can do the trick, however, it's a manual operation, there is no way to make it happen automatically in such workflow, so users tend to forget it.

I hope I can just disable the block attribute reading function, it's a redundant feature in my workflow. If you look into it, the properties are already correct before it's open in AutoCAD, then it becomes empty because of such an issue, then I have to click Update Properties to get it back, this is not a good design.

[ihayesjr]

@smilinger 

If the properties are synced, meaning the property value is in Vault as well as in the title blocks, then there is no need to perform an Update Properties and Data Standard would read the existing values in the title blocks and not show blank values.

What you are describing is that Vault has the property value. The title blocks do not have property values.

Open the drawing in AutoCAD, and Update Properties places the values in the Title Block.

If you disable the property read of the title blocks, then the user will never know what the values are in the title blocks. You might as well remove these properties from the Data Standard dialog altogether.

[smilinger]

@ihayesjr

You still don't get what I mean. Please see the screencast below:

https://autode.sk/3e24KlH

[smilinger]

My further experiment shows that this issue can be solved by add property mapping to the title block attributes.

However, this contradicts my former impression that with VDS I only need map properties to DWG file properties instead of block attributes. This is some extra work, in my opinion. I had thought that with VDS I don't have to add those title block attributes mapping anymore, sometimes it is tedious to map these title blocks, especially when you have many of them, for example, one title block for each drawing size, A0, A1, A2, A3, A4, A2x3, A3x3, etc.

[ihayesjr]

@smilinger 

Mapping Title Block Attributes have always been required for Vault to get those values to appear in Vault. This requirement has nothing to do with Vault Data Standards. 

[smilinger]

I disagree with you.

I guess you are still not very familiar with how Data Standard for AutoCAD works. One of the features that Data Standard provides is to use DWG properties instead of title block attributes, Data Standard can handle the mapping from DWG properties to title block for us automatically, this kind of eliminates the requirements of title block attributes mapping in Vault. This is also the point why I post this idea here, to avoid the mapping as far as possible.

[ihayesjr]

@smilinger 

I reviewed your video and now understand better what you are talking about. Data Standard does not handle DWG to title block mapping. Only AutoCAD handles those mappings if you don't want to make the title block attribute to Vault user-defined property mapping. Data Standards will only write to a Vault user-defined property (UDP). In your case, the UDP is mapped to the custom DWG property. AutoCAD then controls what happens to the value between the title block and the custom property. Data Standard is not causing this issue.

[smilinger]

@ihayesjr 

No, that's not correct.

It's definitely Data Standard causing this issue.

[ihayesjr]

@smilinger 

Can you get an export of the Vault configuration you have, a sample DWG, along with the steps to reproduce what you are experiencing, and send them to me?

[smilinger]

This should be very easy to reproduce with default Vault and VDS configuration, with a little configuration.

To make it simple, let's use AutoCAD Mechanical 2021(or other releases), make sure VDS for AutoCAD is installed.

1. In AutoCAD Mechanical create a new drawing, use AMTITLE command to insert a border with ISO TITLE A title block (which is installed along with ACADM).
2. Use DWGPROPS command to create a custom property GET-TITLE-DES1 with an empty value.
3. Check in the file to vault folder $/Templates/AutoCAD, to use it as a template for Data Standard.
4. In Vault modify the property mapping for the property Description, make it a bi-directional mapping to the dwg property we created in step 2.
5. Right click a design folder, select New Standard File ...
6. Select the Engineering category, AutoCAD Drawing, select the template we created in steps 1-3, select the numbering scheme as required.
7. Enter a value for property Description, then click OK.
8. Check the file just created, we can see the property value we just entered is shown in the properties grid.
9. Make sure ACADM is open and vault add-in is logged in, double click the file in vault and click Yes when asked for check out.
10. The file should be opened in AutoCAD Mechanical now, use DWGPROPS command to check the property value, we can see the value we entered in Vault is lost.

@Markus.Koechl

Can you confirm and comment on this?

[Markus.Koechl]

@smilinger: We recommend using a dual mapping for legacy data having title block attributes but no file properties. The Vault tutorial Chapter 04 talks you through all steps required. We support the creation of new files in Vault Explorer as well as the creation of new drawings in AutoCAD. The only command you should stop using is AMTITLE to insert a new title block with values; the VDS dialog replaces the AMTITLE interface but kicks off on save and not on the event of inserting the new title. If you start new drawings from vaulted templates, the title block should be part of the template anyway.

[smilinger]

@Markus.Koechl

Please read my post again, the AMTITLE command is only used for the template, it's irrelevant to this issue, new files are already created from Vault after the template is ready. The problem is the empty value in the already inserted title block in the template is write back to the file property after the file is checkout, because obviously VDS is reading the title block attributes (which is empty) and write back to file property (which already has the value I want)!

My point is that I want to avoid the title block attribute mapping, I want only file property mapping, however the issue I described here with the specific workflow (double-click and check out), makes the title block attribute mapping inevitable.

That's why I just don't want VDS to read the title block attributes, the file property should be the master property, should not be changed by title block attributes.

[Markus.Koechl]

@smilinger: I see two major strategies in managing 2D DWG title block values: using block attributes or direct mapping of file properties to the title block within the AutoCAD title definition. The VDS tutorial explains both. If your primary intent is to use file properties only, then direct mapping might be the best choice. If you need to cover all options - including legacy data having title blocks with attributes the dual mapping (that you liked to avoid) is the best practice. That is my experience and conviction. And if I could start from scratch without the burden of legacy data having block attributes, I'd prefer the single mapping of file properties and direct mapping within AutoCAD.

[smilinger]

I am not quite sure what do you mean by direct mapping. If you are talking about using field instead of direct property value, then I understand your point, otherwise, I don't know what is the difference between legacy data and non-legacy data, as I see it, all of your tutorial videos are still using title block attributes, even if they are linked to fields instead of directly linked to file property, they are still block attributes, unless we remove all the attributes from title block definition and use only text/mtext with field instead.

If we do not use field, then can we conclude that dual mapping is unavoidable in my case? This is my understanding.

[Markus.Koechl]

You got the point: if we don't use fields within the title block (=direct mapping; attribute/mtext allow both to use document property fields) we better apply the dual mapping.