Best folder structure setup for Inventor files

[NachoShaw]

Hi

We currently have our Inventor files in a central project folder on our server. 

Would i need to change the folder structure and have separate folders for the inventor files or can i use the current folder? The current folder is the live project folder

Thanks

Nacho

[cbenner]

@NachoShaw

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@NachoShaw wrote:

Hi

We currently have our Inventor files in a central project folder on our server. 

Would i need to change the folder structure and have separate folders for the inventor files or can i use the current folder? The current folder is the live project folder

Thanks

Nacho

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Do you mean that you have all of your file in one single folder?  Or do you mean one parent folder with sub-folders for different jobs?

Either way I believe you should be able to duplicate the folder structure you currently have.  You can then set the default Inventor project, and the default working folder for your users.

[Richard.Rankin]

Hi @NachoShaw

I'd recommend that you look at this best practice.

Using Autodesk Vault with a Single Inventor Project.

I'd advise against using a network share that used by all as a shared workspace. That can lead to all sorts of issues down the line.

[NachoShaw]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. Why would a network location be problematic?  We currently have all of our inventor projects on a shared server folder. If not a network share, what is the best method? Surely its not for everyone to have a local version or be dependent on a users PC to be turned on in order to access the vault as a shared folder?

Thanks

[cbenner]

First thing I did as Vault Admin was move everything off of the shared drive.  We work locally now.  A shared drive, with a shared Content Center was causing all sorts of problems.  You do not need the other workstations to be on in order to access the Vault, only the Vault server needs to be up and running.  You open the files you need from the Vault, using you CAD application Vault Add In.  They are placed locally on your machine.  You do the work, and check them back in.  Simple as that.

As I mentioned, Content Center was another problem.  We had that on a network share also.  When User "A" checked in his work and deleted the local copy (during check in), it deleted the local copies of any CC parts he was using.  If user "B" is still working, and using any of those shared CC parts, he suddenly gets errors for unresolved components.

Moving everything to the local machines solved all of this.  This is what I would recommend.  We can help you through the transition if this is what you decide.

[swalton]

Actually, yes.  Vault manages the files, not some network share.  Each user has a working directory on their local machine.  The workflow is like this:

1. User searches and selects some file in the Vault Client.
2. User "gets" the file (and children, if required) from Vault to the local workstation
3. User "checks-out" any files that need to be modified from Vault.  No other user may modify the files, but they can download the latest "not-checked-out" version from Vault at any time.
4. User opens the files with Inventor
5. User edits the files, saving changes to the local workstation.
6. User finishes the edits and "checks-in" the files back to Vault.  As part of the process, Vault copies the files from the local user workspace to its own filestore on the physical server machine.
7. The new version of the file(s) are in Vault.  Other users can see that anything they have on their local workstation is old and replace it with the new Vault versions.

[Richard.Rankin]

In addition to the experiences shared by @swalton and @cbenner, I come at this from a more generic perspective. It can make working in a multi-user environment almost impossible. If using a shared folder, one user can check out an entire assembly from the Vault, that removes the read-only flag on all the files and then anyone can go ahead and edit any of the files. You are then in a situation where, it becomes the wild west. Not only can you lose the integrity of the data, you can lose confidence in it as no-one is accountable for what they do. It's always someone else who made a problem.

I've also had experience of customers using mapped drives. One user has a mapped drive Y:\, another user has X:\, they open an assembly and its looking for a file on X:\. But they are using X:\ for another project. It can just get very avoidably messy.

But in my experience, the reason that most companies use a network share is to simplify the securing of the data by centralizing it all in one place, making it easier to backup. Vault does this by users checking the files in at the end of their working day and the Admin regularly running a backup.  A shared Workspace is, in that respect, redundant when using Vault.

Performance degradation is also a something to bear in mind.

There could be other reasons, but my memory fails me.

I hope this helps explain and sways you over 

[cbenner]

@NachoShaw

I wanted to add some further thoughts to this thread.

We do maintain a shared drive in the CAD dept., for a lot of other types of data.  Some examples:

• Acad Tool Palette libraries
• Acad Electrical symbols and catalogs
• Inventor's Design Data folder and Catalog folder (not Content Center)
• Drawing Templates (also in Vault)
• Any AutoLisp or iLogic stuff
• Shared fonts (for our company logo, for example)
• Shared printer configurations

I keep these on our K: drive, and I (as Admin) am the only one who has read/write access to them.  That way I can make changes and they are readily accessible to all of my users.  But you have to make certain that the users' CAD applications are all pointed to the same shared location if you do this.  This makes it much easier to maintain some drafting standards. 

Anyway, my opinion for what it is worth. 

[NachoShaw]

Hi Everyone

thanks for the replies. I consider myself a pretty well knowledgeable person when it comes to databases and i have a good established background of Inventor and how a good set up works (based on single project, not Vault). I cant help though to not fully understand the reasoning in preferring local vs shared.

I read the replies as every Vault user will have a local copy of the server & client. The server manages the files and the clients provides access to check in / out. Its already been said that the server would installed on a C drive. wouldnt that then create a new database for all users independently? If thats the case, the databases would need to communicate with each other in order to be able to track the changes.

Its going to be an almost impossible task to change a Companies complete folder structure from a shared environment after all, that's supposed to be the purpose of servers & centralization.

I would have expected:

Vault server installed on a server machine

Vault Client installed on users machines

Users check in / out files from the central location on the server

while checked out, files are not updateable (thus removing opportunities for latest version duplication's)

Seeing as Vault is SQL server based, the client only requires a connection string to gain access.

Now please dont get me wrong, im a not questioning anyone here or challenging their set ups, i am only trying to rationalise what i am reading vs how i would expect a multi user server system controlling files should work

Thanks

Nacho

[Richard.Rankin]

Hi @NachoShaw,

I think the misunderstanding is that Vault Server is ONLY installed on one machine. The users all have the Vault client installed on their machines. They do not all install Vault Server. I hope I did not cause that confusion in one of my responses. Apologies if I did.

[NachoShaw]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. So to circle back to an earlier response then, the Vault server is only installed on one machine but its mentioned that it shouldnt be a server machine. That said and as i had previously asked, if the server is installed on a users machine and then that machine is off how does everyone else access the vault?

If a shared file environment is not the preferred method, does everyone store there own version of the files and check them out / in locally? Cant see much point in that. Or, does the same machine that hosts the server also host the vault files that other users access? If thats the case, its still a shared folder of some sort.

Sorry if im not understanding, some of the suggestions seem to negate the purpose of a central server system

thanks

Nacho

[cbenner]

@NachoShaw

I think we have a serious misunderstanding....

Vault server would not be loaded locally on every machine.  Vault server would only exist on one centrally accessible server.  This, however, is not the same as what you would call a shared drive.  A shared drive is just a network mapped drive, to a file and folder structure somewhere on your network.

Vault is a secure database, located on a dedicated server that all of your users would have access to.  You install the server on that machine (based on the tech requirements, of course), and then your users connect to that server through the Vault Client, and the Add Ins in their CAD packages such as Inventor.

When they access that to open a project or assembly or whatever, the files they need are downloaded to their machine, checked out to lift the read only tag on them, and then checked back in to the database.

When you say Shared Drive, I picture my K:\ drive on the network... this is nothing more than files and folders in a standard Windows structure.  This is not Vault.  So... One Vault Server,... several Vault Clients.  All of your cad files tucked neatly and securely into the Vault database until needed.  Support files, like I mentioned in my earlier thread today COULD be stored on a shared network drive for ease of sharing.  This is stuff that I would not necessarily want or need to have in the Vault.

[Richard.Rankin]

I agree with @cbenner. I think we need to clarify some terminology. Images helps me the most.

In a very simple configuration the Vault Server is a machine running SQL, the web service (IIS) and it also houses the Filestore. It centralises the design data, making it easier to backup.

A Workstation is a machine that can be used by a human, that has Inventor and a Vault Client installed on it. The user can start Inventor and the Vault Client and check files in and out of the Vault Server. 

A File Server, is just that. It can have a network share that users can access and read\write files from

An Inventor project file can be configured, so that the files can be checked out of the Vault to the local Workstation or a network share on a File Server. 

When you logged your first post, you said "We currently have our Inventor files in a central project folder on our server." This to me suggests that all your Inventor users are using a project file where the Workspace, Library files, design data, templates, textures etc etc, are all on a network share. The project file should be configured so that the Workspace and Library Search paths are NOT located in the File Server, but on each users Workstation. Locally.

Sorry if this adds confusion or I even misunderstood. I am sure we will get there 

 

If it makes it easier, tomorrow I can call you to discuss on a one 2 one basis.

[cbenner]

@Richard.Rankin

I was just thinking that we needed some images in here.  LOL

@NachoShaw, When I first took over our Vault, I had no clue what was happening,... my first glimpse into the actual File Store structure nearly sent me running for the door.  But, these forums and guys like Richard, and Irvin and so many others have been a huge help.  Like Richard said,.. we'll get you there.  I think we're just all dancing around terminology right now, you obviously know what you're doing.  Just need to learn the lingo maybe.

[NachoShaw]

Hi Guys

appreciate the efforts in explaining. A call would be ace, you can get so much more in a short call than you can reading an expressionless message.

To be clear on our current set up:

We currently work on single projects and each project is located inside the live job folder on our server. We all have access by using Y:\Projects\Whatever job this is\Documentation\Design\Components

we will NOT be accessing any inventor projects outside of Vault once we have it in place

So we would typically

• install vault Server on our internal Company server machine
• Set up the filestore in vault to be the path of the projects folder
• install Vault clients on all user machines
• direct Vault Clients to the Vault Server (on the internal Company server machine)
• Each user checks out files through vault that downloads to the local folder set up on their machine
• each user checks in files through vault that removed the local copy from their machine
• No one accesses inventor files outside of vault

i will PM my number to you

appreciate it

Thanks

Nigel

[swalton]

Once you load your existing projects into Vault, you can delete the existing network share.  It has no further use.  The only way to interact with the files will be through the Vault Client or the CAD add-ins.  

The filestore where Vault keeps your data will be an entirely new directory.  As designed, it will not be something any user or administrator will interact with outside of the Vault Client.  In fact Vault renames and stores the files in its own directory structure that has no relation to the directory structure at each client workstation.

I might have bob.ipt and Charlie.asm three folders deep in my workspace, but if I look for them in the filestore, they will be something like d:\000\000\000\000\000\001\12345-001.ipt.  The Vault database has the only map between the filename that users see and the one in the filestore.

[NachoShaw]

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@swalton wrote:

Once you load your existing projects into Vault, you can delete the existing network share.  It has no further use. 

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Well, it does in respect of other non vault files. Our Company prefers all project related files to be in 1 single place (excel, word, images, surveys, photos etc), we just need to make sure that no inventor or cad files are accessed outside of vault. That can be maintained.

We do not want Vault to move any files to a new directory, we want it to list the same structure as the live job folder i.e. a list of project folders that house sub folders that include folders with our inventor files.

Thanks