Strange stories Reduced Forces Results

Strange stories Reduced Forces Results

mustafahesenow
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Message 1 of 11

Strange stories Reduced Forces Results

mustafahesenow
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Hi,

I created model 4 stories and its symmetric 100% in both directions. I did 2 Seismic Cases 

The first one is not with eccentricity (Case 28) the results of reduced torsion on the stories was about 0 which is correct because the building is totally symmetric  (i.e the center of gravity and center of rigidity are in same coordinates ).

40.PNG39.PNG

 

The second case with eccentricity 2m (Case 30 the results of reduced torsion in the stories  came very huge instead of being only the value of (Fx * 2m )

 

41.PNG38.PNG

 



Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
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Message 2 of 11

Refaat
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Hi @ mustafahesenow

 

IMHO that you have two seismic cases (W / WO ) additional eccentricity then (only one Model case ) should be defined instead of two as shown in the picture below .

Once you do that the results will be as you are expected .

 

The file also attached

 

Refaat

001.jpg

 

 

002.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Message 3 of 11

mustafahesenow
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Hi @Refaat

When we consider the eccentricity from the seismic case the torsion moment will be calculated correctly. but when we choose the eccentricity from the modal it will affect even the modal result to to shift or add more mass . The issue now the torsion should be the eccentricity multiple by the force but the result came very huge .

 

My point is As you see if we consider the eccentricity from modal the result will change not same if we consider this eccentricity from the seismic force.

Please be noted that also that when the modal will have eccentricity the eccentricity option in the corresponding seismic force will be hidden.

 



Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
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Message 4 of 11

Artur.Kosakowski
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi @mustafahesenow and @Refaat

 

In RSA there are two ways of defining eccentricity for the response spectra analysis. The simplified approach (see Simplified method for defining eccentricities topic) and the more accurate solution based on increase of mass on one side of a structure and decreasing it on the opposite one). For the prior MZ is indeed FX * eccentricity by its principle however I have difficulty due to my limited knowledge of seismic analysis to tell if the results obtained for the later are correct or wrong (too large MZ) as shapes of modes in case 29 are obviously different than these obtained for case 27. Smiley Sad



Artur Kosakowski
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Message 5 of 11

mustafahesenow
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Hi @Artur.Kosakowski

In both of the 2 ways of defining the eccentricity from the modal parameters the results of MZ are closed to each other but they are very huge than the expected once The resultant eccentricity is about (6m) but the defined one is 2m.



Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
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Message 6 of 11

Refaat
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Advisor

Hi @Artur.Kosakowski

 

 

I would like to thank Engineer Mustapha to excitation of this important point

 

Even when I chose the consistent as mass matrix type instead of lumped without rotations and define the additional eccentricity in model case. The eccentricity value is about (2.80 m) which is still incorrect value.

 

I think this issue (define additional eccentricity in model case) should be investigated by dev. Team.

 

 Refaat

 

 

Message 7 of 11

mustafahesenow
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Hi @Artur.Kosakowski

Any news about this topic ?

 



Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
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Message 8 of 11

Artur.Kosakowski
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi Mustafa,

 

It is still under the investigation. My assumption is that this is due to the results of the modal analysis with masses as assigned to the nodes of the model. If I may ask you what in your opinion should be the value of mass in each of these 3 nodes after defining 2 meters mass offset? 

 

 



Artur Kosakowski
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Message 9 of 11

mustafahesenow
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Hi @Artur.Kosakowski

Sorry for late reply. I didnt understand your question Can you please explain it more.



Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
LinkedIn

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Message 10 of 11

Artur.Kosakowski
Autodesk Support
Autodesk Support

Hi @mustafahesenow

 

Indeed hard to understand without seeing the missed picture Smiley Embarassed

 

Mass offset.PNG



Artur Kosakowski
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Message 11 of 11

mustafahesenow
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Accepted solution

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Mustafa Hesenow
Senior Structural Design Engineer/MZP
LinkedIn