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Hollow slab and Formulas of matrix elements (material orthotropy)

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Message 1 of 4
rokas_varanauskas
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Hollow slab and Formulas of matrix elements (material orthotropy)

I have to model steel frame with Hollow slab panels but also to consider the following:

  • Diaphragm action for horizontal load transfer into stability cores
  • Correct load distribution (one way spanning)
  • Thermal loads applied to panels and bar elements

Due to thermal load application, cladding panels with diaphragm actions have been eliminated from modelling consideration. It was down to two options - solid slab (equivalent thickness to hollow core) and hollow slab panels. 

 

rokas_varanauskas_0-1714483730851.png

Hollow slab panel geometry shown above, 150mm hollow slab with 100mm structural topping. 

Above geometry was approximated into below panel type in Robot:

rokas_varanauskas_1-1714483828232.png

 

In order to verify Robot calculated values of stiffness matrixes hand calculations were performed using RSA help files:

rokas_varanauskas_2-1714484032284.png

Membrane stiffness verification was relatively simple and hand calculations almost perfectly matched robot values. In addition, robot values were within 5% of simplified stiffness assessment from first principles. All good there. 

 

When it comes to bending stiffness, I found that Robot calculated D_yyyy value is only about 62% of one calculated by hand using formulas. There also appears to be error in argument description for Iy calculation. 

 

Iy = InertiaIsec(a/xv,a1,h,h1,h2) + 4*(0,00755*r*r*r*r + 0,2146*r*r*(c/2+0,7766*r)*(c/2+0,7766*r))

 

rokas_varanauskas_3-1714484669791.jpeg

According to above image, b=a1, which is actually core width in the below description:

rokas_varanauskas_4-1714484772845.png

I only get correct Iy value if a1 argument is replaced with rib width (a-a1). 

 

It's also worth noting, that arguments d=h1 and e=h2 contradict between two diagrams (top and bottom flange thickness mixed up). 

 

Dyyyy= E*a/((a-a1)/(InertiaIsec(1/xv,0,h,h1,h2) + a1/InertiaIsec(1/xv,0,h,hz1,hz2))

 

Can Dyyyy Inertia calculation formulas be checked and confirmed as correct by Autodesk team @Krzysztof_Wasik 

 

3 REPLIES 3
Message 2 of 4

@okapawal is this something you can advise please? 

Message 3 of 4

hi @rokas_varanauskas 

This doesn't answer your first question but note that you can edit values ​​more efficiently through the API

Sub DealWithHollowCoreSlabs()
  Dim RobApp As RobotApplication
  If NotReady(RobApp) Then Exit Sub
  
  Dim Labels As RobotLabelServer, Label As RobotLabel
  Dim ThkData As RobotThicknessData, ThkOrthoData As RobotThicknessOrthoData
  
  Set Labels = RobApp.Project.Structure.Labels
  
  Dim RNA As RobotNamesArray
  Set RNA = Labels.GetAvailableNames(I_LT_PANEL_THICKNESS)
  For i = 1 To RNA.count
     LabelName = RNA.Get(i)
     If Labels.Exist(I_LT_PANEL_THICKNESS, LabelName) <> 0 Then
       Set Label = Labels.Get(I_LT_PANEL_THICKNESS, LabelName)
       Set ThkData = Label.Data
       With ThkData
         If .ThicknessType = I_TT_ORTHOTROPIC Then
           Set ThkOrthoData = ThkData.Data
           With ThkOrthoData
             If .Type = I_TOT_HOLLOW_CORE_SLAB Then
               Cnv = 100
               H = .H * Cnv:   HC = .HC * Cnv
               A = .A * Cnv:   A1 = .A1 * Cnv
               H0 = .H0 * Cnv
               With .Matrix
                 D_XXXX = .GetValue(I_TMV_D_XXXX)
                 D_XXYY = .GetValue(I_TMV_D_XXYY)
                 D_YYYY = .GetValue(I_TMV_D_YYYY)
                 D_XYXY = .GetValue(I_TMV_D_XYXY)
                 K_XXXX = .GetValue(I_TMV_K_XXXX)
                 K_XXYY = .GetValue(I_TMV_K_XXYY)
                 K_YYYY = .GetValue(I_TMV_K_YYYY)
                 K_XYXY = .GetValue(I_TMV_K_XYXY)
                   H_XX = .GetValue(I_TMV_H_XX)
                   H_YY = .GetValue(I_TMV_H_YY)
               End With
             End If
           End With
         End If
       End With
     End If
  Next i
  
  Set RobApp = Nothing
End Sub

Best Regards

 

 

Message 4 of 4

It was confirmed by Autodesk team that formulas in Robot help contain errors.

Specifically, error in help formulas for calculating Iy parameter:

rokas_varanauskas_0-1716191106645.png

Image above shows original help formulas

rokas_varanauskas_1-1716191143439.png

Image above shows formulas used within RSA provided by Autodesk.

 

a-a1 argument in Iy calculation is the key difference between RSA and help files.

I hope that this will get rectified in help files. 

 

 

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