Vertical reference plane - placing member (for example wall bracing member)

[Tom_Bionda]

Hi everyone,

Subject: Placing vertical (yz,or xz) steel member on reference plane (plane in xz or yz).

Intro: When modeling vertical bracing system in walls of structure, usually we would place diagonal members (bracings) by simply defining/creating reference plane in that wall and give it a name "Wall bracing East" let's say, and then we would create section along that wall to have clear look/view on wall frame.

Problem (tiny): Maybe I am repeating topic, and there are people who are reading this already know for that problem, but have you experienced in Revit that unless member is placed under the angle it will "stay" or be created , otherwise if you want to create perpendicular element on reference plane it won't "stay", or be created?.

Is that something that in Revit has a constant glitch, or what is the cause of not being able to place member vertical or horizontal on reference plane?.

P.S. I don't have screen shot, because it only gives a massage : "nothing has been created", but if you need more of proof  I'll try to catch message and prtsc it.

Thank you

[Tom_Kunsman]

This is interesting. Not sure if I ever saw this error before. Which version of Revit are you using?

The only thing I can think of is when placing wide flange members as vertical bracing I found that I would have to place them at a shallow angle, or no angle at first and then move the end points of the beam to where I wanted them to go. This is because Revit thinks and wants wide flange beams to always be horizontal and not at an angle.

If you get the error again please screen capture it.

[jay_colcombe]

So from the error I would assume it cannot create anything as it has no length?

Have you tried using a Grid Line instead of a Reference Plane and using a Framing Elevation as an alternative does it still occur using this method?

If you could possible create a screenshot of what you are trying to achieve such as the wall in plan and elevation with sketched  model lines or the screenshot software for the brace positions and sections used it would be useful.

[Tom_Bionda]

As Tom to another Tom,

That is right, start with shallow angle and then when it "accepts" element to "sit" on ref. plane then adjust to be vertical or horizontal.

Your explanation of cause and effect is new for me, most of the time we use EA (angle profiles) or SHS(Square hollow section) which is common practice in general in Construction industry for cross bracing, or angle bracing, sure other profiles can be applied. So, if you consider this profiles as wide flange profile, then I can accept logic behind Revit engine.

To reflect on your first part of reply, I experienced this in Revit versions starting 2020 to present. But in lack of motivation, and not being aware of wide online Revit society I was not bringing that out.

This is not "icebreaker" problem for me to perform work in revit, it is something that intrigues me, it's something that only puts question mark on my forhead. There are other tools inside revit with I can achieve wanted result.

This time I catch problem, see how when I place EA vertical I get message, while when I place under slight angle I don't get that message.

Thank you for giving me attention and share of experience.

Regards

[Tom_Bionda]

Hi Jay,

I am not stopped to perform work by this issue, it is just something I am experiencing for some time (short / since 2020), but never had a chance to broth it out online, yes I can use other tools to achieve the same and I am doing it, but still I would like to know about cause of this error message?.

Sometimes bracing in not located perfectly on grid (centrally to wall frame, or columns), but instead it is offset for cca 200 mm) then you can't apply grid line as host plane.   

This time I have screen shot, so please have a look.

Thank you for Reply

[jay_colcombe · Accepted solution]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the images, it cleared it up for me and I have come across this before and because of my way of working I never use vertical Structural Framing in elevations and use Column and Braces instead probably because of this so jogged my memory.

I can only think it is an in-built Family trait and something inside the the Structural Framing Family is driving this nuance as the Structural Framing Modify Tools are the only ones to include options to edit a Workplane and when you chose Pick New it only gives Level References for Name.

[Tom_Bionda]

Hi Jay,

Sorry for late reply, I see, well I am glad that it triggered your memory and you gave me explanation of what drives this like you said "nuance". The thing is that neither I use structural framing elements for vertical, I use columns, too, but when creating "X" bracing I come across this issue.

Thank you for clarifying and sharing your experience.

Cheers