Structural Column plan view visibility

[Tom_Bionda]

Hi everyone,

Revit 2024:

Today and previously I have experienced issues with column plan view visibility.

Set up: So, when creating plan view of roof framing I have adjusted view range to be correct (reference level is ridge point, cut level is 0.00- at ref level, top range is set to be 100 mm above ref level (there is nothing above), and bottom range is set to be just under awning to catch awning framing.

The columns should be projected as solid lines right? (detail level in template is set to Course).

I also found on this forum/Autodesk that "show family pre-cut in plan views" should be unticked (edit family-> family category and parameters).

Also, analytical model categories are unticked.

The top of the column is cut using Structural column cut by face tool. If that is causing prevention from column web to be visible how to turn of cut outline?

Please find the prt.sc where you can clearly see column on grid B fully visible (flanges and web), while columns on grid 1 and 2 flange is visible and web is not.

Did someone exoerienced the same problem and how to solve it?

Regards

[jay_colcombe]

Does this have any relevance?  (I know there are a few anomalies with 2024 and Structural Discipline Visibility)

Structural elements appear incorrectly or are missing in plan view in Revit (autodesk.com)

[Tom_Bionda]

Hi @jay_colcombe,

Looks like I made new online friend :), how's going buddy?

Link:

Following the link instructions, you've sent me did not solve issue, but did widen my knowledge. Thank you, I appreciate.

Issue update:

In meantime, after I announced my issue on Autodesk Forum I kept tackling with issue and found that only solution to get back full visibility of column is to by deleting "Opening -> By face", which is not the best outcome, but i had to move on in order to deliver product on time. 

After deleting Structural Cut Opening, I used reference plane to cut the top of the column. Full visibility of column was restored.

Things to discuss:

One would say: "but why you would cut column using tool Opening--> Cut by Face, instead of cutting against reference plane?

Yes, I agree, but in some instances, I will have to potentially use tool Cut By Face and then I am going to experience this problem, right?

Creating Opening or cutting column with tool Cut by Face is literally over the Column and prevents column form being visible (interesting how only web is not visible, but flanges are, even though the Cut geometry is over flanges too? -> see image "Top of the Column Cut by Face").

1. My question: When selecting Structural Opening Cut in the properties window I don't have any option to control what can be done with that action, whether giving it parameter, or explore any data, or navigate visibility options. Like turning on and of (ticking visibility box).   
2. If Structural Opening By Face is controllable geometry when creating why the same can't be controlled by visibility option?  Or maybe I don't understand nature (which is coding process I assume) of that tool?
3. Who has more priority? Cut By Face or Column?  

I am attaching images of what I am writing here about, if you @jay_colcombecolcombe, or anyone who reads this reply need more information please let me know.

Thank you

[jay_colcombe · Accepted solution]

Hi Tom,

We are all friends here!!

I think the main crux of this is a different way of working to other software's in Revit to achieve a familiar goal.

In Revit it definitely would be recommended to use the Reference Plane option with the Cut Tool to a Column Top this has to be angled or cut and this is a pretty standard guidance.  The reasoning that you are simply using a Trim command on the element so no other real variables to consider.

You can even use the Attach Top/Base Command when selecting the Column use the Reference Plane this way

By using the Reference Plane Method the Column automatically adjust if the Reference Plane moves or is edited.

When using opening you Opening Tools (By Face) you are now adding an additional element with its own properties and constraints which as you have shown needs to be very precisely done to achieve the same result and could be more open to anomalies?

One clear point, using this option does no allow Turning On/Off to see what is or isn't Cut (I know in some software's this is possible).

Below is a link I recall showing a good example further down in the Video on using Opening By Face so try this same process where the Cut is Angled and see if it offers a different outcome?

Solved: Steel Tab Modifiers AND Dimensional Lumber - Autodesk Community - Revit Products

Finally you have the Steel Tab with Modifiers which could possible be a better answer as these Tools are more Advanced Steel Type Driven and have Parameters which can be edited unlike the Opening Face Tool.  

So possibly using the Shorten 

Help | Steel Element Cut Tools | Autodesk

Help | Shorten a Steel Framing Element for Steel Fabrication | Autodesk

[Tom_Bionda]

Hi @jay_colcombe 

1. "In Revit it definitely would be recommended to use the Reference Plane option with the Cut Tool to a Column Top this has to be angled or cut and this is a pretty standard guidance.  The reasoning that you are simply using a Trim command on the element so no other real variables to consider."

Re:

Yes, this is always my sort of backup work (something that I know it will most often work) :). Why not experimenting sometimes.

2.When using opening you Opening Tools (By Face) you are now adding an additional element with its own properties and constraints which as you have shown needs to be very precisely done to achieve the same result and could be more open to anomalies?

Re:  Like you said "with its own properties and constrains", so why those properties and constrains can't be editable, why when I select that additional element that element itself is "dead object" cos it does not provide possibility to edit parameter or make it visible or not visible...... 

3."One clear point, using this option does no allow Turning On/Off to see what is or isn't Cut (I know in some software's this is possible)."

Re: Well, still i am hoping it is going to be possible in Revit too.

All in all thank you for valuable links and explanations.

Kind Regards