Move building Relative to Survey Point

[Tom_Bionda]

Hi All,

Intro: Project started; the Site file was created (coordinates acquired from survey cad file). 

           Modeling is finished, documents issued. Few moments later (:)) we got requested to move 

           building in certain direction, but maintain survey point at same coordinates (as corner of

           boundary line to remain at same coordinates).

Wanted action: We want to move Building relative to Survey point.

Visual idea: If we have boundary point at A(X,Y) coordinate, and building corner of the wall point at B(X1,Y1), we want to move point B so that we than have B at new coordinates as B(X2,Y2), and A remain the same as A(X,Y). So point A is glued to the surface of the earth, but B is not, we want to shift B, we want B to change position relative to A.

Attempt  No.1:

Normally ppl around the earth would suggest: "just select the building model elements, and use move tool to relocate building". I did try that but then I get Revit msg: "can't move these elements at the same time...", which ultimately leads to complications, there are advises to link groups if they are cause of problem and etc.

Attempt No. 2: Go to Manage --> Relocate project, this tool globally shifts the whole "bucket", modeled building and linked models (including site file with coordinates), basically "whole nine yards". 

Final and Successful Attempt:

Specify coordinates at point.

Now this tool let me to select corner of the building or point B and manually input wanted coordinates, by apply button whole building shifts together with point B, surprisingly point A stays where is originating (point A is part of site file-linked file). 

I am satisfied with outcome.

Question: Guys can someone please help me to understand what this tool does, can I say that this tool translates all elements in model relative to something? by saying that am I on right conclusion path? 

How is possible that this tool did not affect Linked file (site file-with survey coordinates)?

Is there anywhere on Autodesk official site where I can find explanation of what is this tool actually do?

Thank you

[jay_colcombe · Accepted solution]

Did you consider moving Project Base Point?  

We use Specify Coordinates at a point where often importing CAD files with real world coordinates can place it far away from the Internal Origin and cause issues later on.  Basically, instead of Acquiring Coordinates and the Survey Point moving to this position in relation to 0,0 you are simply stating the values are at a definite point in your model.  

Help | Relocate the Model by Specifying Coordinates | Autodesk

[hmunsell]

Depending on how you have your Civil file linked in, picking relocate Project should work. like @jay_colcombe suggested, and it sounds like you found out too, you can just move the Project base Point by entering the coordinates. 

Take a look at this video. It's one of the best ones I have seen to explain how to work with Civil links and origin coordination. 

• https://www.autodesk.com/autodesk-university/class/Civil-3D-integration-within-Revit-2022

[Tom_Bionda]

When I specify exact coordinates, I’m moving the element relative to the Survey Point, but I’m not changing the Survey Point itself. The Survey Point stays in the same spot, and I’m just telling the software where I want the element to be in relation to it. So, I’m positioning the element based on those coordinates, but I’m not shifting the Survey Point or affecting its location in the model.

The idea behind "Specify Coordinates" is to avoid this issue. Instead of moving the "Survey Point" (which is the reference point for where the real-world coordinates should go) to match those real-world coordinates, you're telling the software, 'These coordinates belong at this specific point in my model.'

Basically, you’re not adjusting the Survey Point to match the real-world location. You’re just setting the coordinates at a specific place in your model, so everything stays in the right position without getting too far off or causing confusion.

It’s a way to tell the program where the coordinates should be, but without messing with the general layout of your model. This helps keep everything in a more organized, predictable spot. That’s how I understood what you said. Okay, it's clearer to me now what that tool means and does.

Regarding the movement of the Project Base Point: I selected and moved the Project Base Point; however, it did not affect the actual model. Everything remained in the same position, with the only change being the relocation of the Project Base Point marker according to the value I entered.

Thank you @jay_colcombe 

[Tom_Bionda]

Thank you, 

The tool (Specify Coordinates at Point) in Revit seems to have performed the action, but it wasn't entirely clear to me what exactly it did. For example, when I typed specific coordinates using 'Specify Coordinates at Point,' the Survey Point itself wasn't affected, though the tool appears to have made a change.

This action makes it clear that the tool did something, but the effect wasn't immediately obvious or fully understood by me.

Cheers

[hmunsell]

@Tom_Bionda , This may or may not make sense 😊, but I have always thought of the Survey Point (SP) as being locked to a specific place in the world based on the acquired coordinates (unless you unclip it). The Project Base Point (PBP) is a relative location on your project site, relative to your SP.

Moving the SP moves the world under the PBP.  

• The SP moves, but the SP coordinates don’t change
• The PBP stays in place, and its coordinates change relative to the SP.

Moving the PBP moves the PBP relative to the SP.

•  The PBP moves, and the PBP coordinates change
• The SP stays in place, the SP coordinates don’t change

In either case, the Internal Origin (IO) stays in place.

Project Relocate

• Will move the PBP, and the content modeled in the file, to the new location.

Specify Coordinate at Point

• Will move the world under the PBP based on the coordinates specified.
• This will also have the effect of moving the SP relative to the new coordinates.

[Tom_Bionda]

@hmunsell , PBP and SP concept you explained is relativity relation of one point to another (as of what I can read from-maybe if there would be three would make me think twice), also I would add that PBP moves relative to both SP and Internal Origin (IO). 

Project Relocate

• Will move the PBP, and the content modeled in the file, to the new location.

Once project coordinates are mapped from imported Cad file (survey file), that point is WCS location, by using tool Project Relocate we move everything PBP and SP, so i would have to then manually move back SP to wanted coordinates (or given by Surveyor), so we can move house around as many time we want, but SP will have to then be moved back to its Origin (given by Surveyor). Tool moves SP and PBP relative to revit Origin.

Compared to tool Specify Coordinates at Point seems to me as two-step process instead of one.

Specify Coordinate at Point

• Will move the world under the PBP based on the coordinates specified.

         Seems to be, but more likely world is fixed , rather it moves/slide paper with project drawn on it and PBP with it.....just by looking in real time screen and             how numbers are changing or not changing.

• This will also have the effect of moving the SP relative to the new coordinates.

          Right, i got you, I observed coordinates, their value remained the same so SP haven't moved, maybe relative to PBP (looking from point of PBP, like "standing in PBP and looking toward SP"), but to IO not. Something like you said shifted world under PBP (so that SP haven't changed values) 🕺, and then put PBP back on earth and map new coordinates.

"This may or may not make sense , but I have always thought of the Survey Point (SP) as being locked to a specific place in the world based on the acquired coordinates (unless you unclip it). The Project Base Point (PBP) is a relative location on your project site, relative to your SP."

Absolutely, SP should be like Ultimate, global, Master point, absolute- until Musk land on Mars 😄, and not to be moved at all, unless we relocate project far far away, in which situation we would pay surveyor to give us new coordinates so that we don't stretch kilometer long measure tape. Then yes, please Client move your product around SP as many time as you want. 

Cheers