Couplers and Threads Error?

[RobohoboRabbit]

good morning I think I have come across an error but I need to be 100 present sure as these have gone to fabrication.

in Revit on the bbs you can show the end treatment, but how do you show which bars have couplers.

I have found Revit giving the same shape code to a bar that should only have a coupler and thread as a bar with two couplers.

my guess is Revit is seeing the threads only as both bars will be threaded both ends, but one bar is a coupler at both ends and one joining to a coupled bar so one needs one coupler .

do you think I made a mistake or is Revit wrong here?

[ovidiu_paunescu]

Hi @RobohoboRabbit

In Revit the only effect a coupler has on a bar is applying an end treatment. Basically it specifies the modification required to fit the coupler (the end of the bar is Threaded, or whatever custom ET you add).

The bar has no knowledge of the exact coupler connected to it.

Regarding rebar shapes, end treatments work similar to hooks.

If ET are included in the shape definition, adding a coupler to a bar will change its shape.

This is what is happening in your example

Also similar to hooks, something called shape matching prevents the existence of two symmetrical bars, but with different shapes, just because one has an ET at start and the other has an identical ET at the end.

Check out how shape matching works in the attached video (ShapeMatching.mp4).

One way to differentiate between a bar that comes with the coupler and one that doesn't, would be to add a custom end treatment that contains a particular string.

Check out the example in the attached video (couplerhost.mp4) and the sample

[RobohoboRabbit]

Thank you for the reply - im surprised that Revit is not recognising the couplers - is this something that will change?

in Revit if you have a two bars the same length both are threaded top and btm if one has a coupler it

should be a different bar mark,(if not whats the point of the couplers in revit all bars are only seen as threaded its confusing the detailing and production the guys trying the make this have no idea where a coupler goes and end up using a coupler every place there is a thread)  

if there is no plan to change this how do the guys on the factory floor or the steel fixers know about the couplers and if to fit them to the bars , this should all be on the bbs.?

I will try making the changes to the end treatment in the  model but I would see this as being another workaround to something that should be standard

[ovidiu_paunescu]

Why is a bar threaded if it's not connected to a coupler?

Do you encounter such situations?

In your projects how are the bars delivered to the site?

Are the couplers attached to the bar and the connected one is fitted or are the couplers delivered separately?

In Revit, a bar cannot have an end treatment unless a coupler is connected to it.

The Structural Rebar Coupler is a separate element in Revit.

It can be numbered, scheduled, etc.

More about rebar couplers here

The end treatment can be customized to show how the bar ends need to be prepared so that a coupler can be fitted.

For example, the bar diameter is known and the end treatment may specify a tapered thread or a regular thread or no thread (some bolted coupler can be attached to it)

The start or end of the bar isn't important because of shape matching that allows symmetrical bars to be matched to the same shape and not produce a lot of identical shapes (with just the same hook or ET at start or end).

[RobohoboRabbit]

thank you for the reply im not so concerned with the end treatment as this will be correct as things are,

but with how people know what to do when manufacturing the bars with couplers .

Why is a bar threaded if it's not connected to a coupler?

this is where you would use a position coupler (the bar dose not need to turn the coupler is screwed on for a starter bar in some cases , like when producing a base slab made up of rebar matts joined together onsite , one matt would be fitted with a coupler and the opposite matt only threaded to received that coupler and join.

 or where cages are joined in sections using couplers (coupler on top the other end threaded only to join into the next one) 

Do you encounter such situations?

the purpose of the rebar bbs is for bars to be produced as '' cut and bent'' or prefabricated steel.

so each bar will have to be made on the factory floor , if a bar is joined with a coupler and finished in a coupler -there are a few ways to produce this - one bar with two couplers + one bar with just a thread , or one bar with a coupler and thread joined to one bar with coupler.

but cut and bent or prefab there needs to be some direction on how to make up the length of bar.

I have added some pictures from our detailing software , even though the bars are joined with a coupler one has to be made with just a thread , for a steel call off there is no difference you will have all the bars with the correct end treatment and the correct amount of couplers but how do you fit them correctly if not detailed as we have ?

 In your projects how are the bars delivered to the site?

in most cases the bars are fitted with the couplers in the factory for both loose steel and prefab steel.

this would be the recommendation from the suppliers as sites wouldn't have the equipment to fit them.

at the moment the people who have to produce the rebar from revit end up with a load of threaded bars and a box of couplers and no way of knowing where to fit them that I can see

[ovidiu_paunescu]

Hi James,

Thanks for all the details you have provided!

It would be great if you could add this to the idea station.

This is a great way to gather support and provides valuable insight for the development teams when doing prioritization.

Thanks,

Ovidiu

[RobohoboRabbit]

thanks for that , unfortunately I believed this should be standard .

with all the issues in the rebar with revit Heathrow Airport is firing out autodesk  and moving to Solid works.

notting has been fixed yet and we keep finding these issues

[RobohoboRabbit]

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